Author Topic: Input from our kitcheners to the kitchen staff - Summit 2017 #2  (Read 572 times)

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Offline MichaelA

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Re: Input from our kitcheners to the kitchen staff - Summit 2017 #2
« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2017, 13:39:49 »
That was interesting @Bill from November Sound , I guess putting our work up for review is a double edged sword. Indeed, you can get the odd strange suggestion about what to do with your song, but maybe I should spend less time fretting about this song for review section! It's nice to get involved (a little!) with people who share the same hobby, so yeah, maybe the review thing isn't everything. I do agree on discouraging adversely critical reviews though, as people come on here for positivity and fun I do believe!

Well @Leonard Scaper , you are a bit more easy going than me about 'rules', but that's OK - we're different!  ;D The only thing I would like to draw attention to, especially to the summit attendees,  is the other non-songwriting forum where I spend quite a bit of time. It is a football/soccer forum for Liverpool FC, who I support. They have very strict rules on there, eg no recycling fake news stories, no dissing the team manager, no aggressive dissing of players or each other + only start posts if you can speak with authority on a subject. Despite these rules, which some do admittedly complain about from time to time, the forum is MASSIVE - ie kitchen insanity level times ten. That's because it is always worth visiting as people put thought into what they are doing, for the most part, and the camaraderie is great.

In its history there have been 15 million posts and there are always 500+ people online at any time. As I write the most users they've had online today is 904 and the most the Kitchen have had is 51. So to my mind, these guys prove that 'rules' in themselves drive quality, which means more value in what people are getting from their visit. Check out their stats at the bottom of the page: https://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/

Now there must be more songwriters in the world than supporters of just one football/soccer team, so if your objective is to become much bigger, well there may well have to be some change. Everybody knows the sentiment that you can't keep doing the same old thing and expect outcomes to differ. The Kitchen is a great place, but it just needs a bit of scale - so that there is a lot more interaction going on. It doesn't have to be as big as this football forum, but twice as big as it currently is would certainly make the place more fun.

That's it, I will shut up now. I don't even know what the growth objective of the Kitchen is, or if there even is one. In some ways it is none of my business. But because I enjoy coming here, I suppose I would just like to suggest ways that I for one think could make it better.

(Also @Mar T. - don't forget to discuss the chart idea!  ;) )
If you like novels with a musical theme, why not try 'Sixth Beatle - When Music Changed The World', easily found on Amazon and Google. It is amazing, although as the author I may be biased!

Offline Vince

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I guess I'm more like @Bill from November Sound  - except without the teenager  ;D I really don't post a song and have found I'm not really good at feedback other than hitting the heart button on SC.

It does seem to me that each song posted does get feedback - some more than others, which I guess is due to their own responses to other's songs.

When I have posted a song, the feedback has been very supportive, but when it comes to recording I don't know what I'm doing, so my song is pretty much what it is. I do redo stuff and it gets a little better. If I ever write a song the lovely Hannelore (my wife) likes - I would probably rent a studio and a professional singer. Even now you can do this online (there is almost to many recording services to choose from)

Maybe, if it's not to much trouble to do, there could be a category just for new releases. Nothing other than just a link to the song. I do like to support the members by listening, but sometimes  my stream on SC is so busy (so many creative people) I miss a lot that's released. One time I was going to click on a members site to listen to a song and accidentally un-followed  them and am to embarrassed to re-follow.  ;D
 

Offline Leonard Scaper

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Re: Input from our kitcheners to the kitchen staff - Summit 2017 #2
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2017, 15:36:00 »
Now there must be more songwriters in the world than supporters of just one football/soccer team

Maybe, my friend, but songwriters tend to be more withdrawn and sensitive artistic types while football fans....well........not so much. While a forum such as that will draw folks from all walks of life, we are more of a niche forum so it is harder for us to draw huge crowds.

Quote
They have very strict rules on there, eg no recycling fake news stories, no dissing the team manager, no aggressive dissing of players or each other + only start posts if you can speak with authority on a subject.

I'm all for those kinds of rules. I'm just making the case against forced interaction as I worry that it will push some songwriters away. I think we could run the risk of ending up as an insular family of writers who critique each other's work rather than an expansive group of eclectic artists from around the world who come by when they have songs because they know they will be heard and possibly get meaningful critique by those who enjoy doing so.

Quote
I don't even know what the growth objective of the Kitchen is, or if there even is one. In some ways it is none of my business.

Smiling.....I see you as a strong and very active voice here and your opinion bears huge weight in a discussion such as this. I think @Mar T. and @Dutchbeat would agree with me when I say that this is very much your business. They need to hear all sides of a topic like this.

 :) :) :) :) :)
"The main thing is to have a gutsy approach....but use your head." Julia Child

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Offline Mar T.

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Re: Input from our kitcheners to the kitchen staff - Summit 2017 #2
« Reply #18 on: October 13, 2017, 02:35:59 »
Without responding now ( just like to take the input to the summit and discuss it together with @Dutchbeat ) I love all pointers and ideas being brought up here, thank you so much so far @Leonard Scaper , @Vince , @MichaelA and @Bill from November Sound !

Everybody, please help us answering these questions:

We'd like to ask you to share with us 2 things:

1. What do you LIKE about the kitchen?
2. Do you have a TIP for us that can help the kitchen improve?

(optional)
3. What do you want to STOP happening in the kitchen?

You'll receive at least 10 karma-points in return if you reply to this post.
We're here to help everybody experiencing the best songwriters/songwriting community/platform on earth. Let us know what we can do to help even more!


Thanks!!
Cheers..

@Dutchbeat and @Mar T.
:db:   and  :mart:

Offline CrystalSuzy

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Great discussions going on here, and I agree with all points of view, but I don't think it would do any harm to this forum, to make a rule that you have to review 2 songs, before posting one of your own   ::Note::
I think most people would be fine with that.  ::thumb::

On another note, I personally don't like our voting system! I don't like that, once you vote, you can see the number of votes that everyone gets. It's fine if your song is getting lots of votes, but not if your on the lower end. IMO, it's kind of embarrassing and not necessary. I also think that it spoils the surprise of who the winners are :whistle: Just my opinion, but I think it worth a discussion ::smiley::

I notice that when you google songwriters forums, the Kitchen doesn't come up till the 2nd page, so it probably doesn't get the same amount of traffic that the ones on the first page
do. Maybe there is no way to change that C:-)
I love the people that I've met on this forum. They are so kind and compassionate and really care about one another. This forum offers a quaint and fun atmosphere, that most others don't.  ::heart::
There are some very talented people in the kitchen, that can offer some excellent advice on whatever you are looking for. These are just a few of the things that I love about the kitchen.  ::thumb::
And as you can see, I also love the icons  ;D ;D ;D

Congrats to Goatie on her big win to attend the summit...but be careful Goatie, I think maybe you might be walking into a Lion's den  ;D ;D ;D   ::Suzy::
« Last Edit: October 13, 2017, 13:40:20 by CrystalSuzy »

Offline Mar T.

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Re: Input from our kitcheners to the kitchen staff - Summit 2017 #2
« Reply #20 on: October 13, 2017, 13:50:03 »
Hey @CrystalSuzy , good points, thank you!! Just one quick note: the voting system looks a bit different to us staff members than to the other kitcheners, only staff can see the results when the voting is still open. Once voting is closed (and after Dutch and I manually announce the top-5 entries in a real ceremony  ;) ;) ) indeed the results are shown to anyone.
Imo that's valuable info for the contestants, but I get your point about the lower scoring entries.

Are more people feeling that the voting results should be hidden forever? That's no problem at all.. (it's a checkbox I can check when I create the voting poll)
I guess there's also contestants that DO want to see there score, so they'd have to ask our staff if they want to know. Let me know what you think kitcheners!

As for anonymous Google search on

'Songwriters forum' we end up 8th on the first page
'Songwriting forum' we end up 8th on the first page
'Songwriter forum' we end up 5th on the first page

Results may vary depending on where you live. Did you do anonymous search (Searching while being logged out of Google) as well?

Cheers,
:mart:



« Last Edit: October 13, 2017, 22:58:03 by Mar T. »

Offline Leonard Scaper

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Re: Input from our kitcheners to the kitchen staff - Summit 2017 #2
« Reply #21 on: October 13, 2017, 14:20:04 »
I notice that when you google songwriters forums, the Kitchen doesn't come up till the 2nd page, so it probably doesn't get the same amount of traffic that the ones on the first page
do.

fwiw.......I noticed the same thing on my small screen at home but on my larger screen here at work we come up on the first page of a Google search.

Offline Vince

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We'd like to ask you to share with us 2 things:

1. What do you LIKE about the kitchen?
2. Do you have a TIP for us that can help the kitchen improve?

(optional)
3. What do you want to STOP happening in the kitchen?


I'm a sucker for Karma points.
1. I like the fact that it's all so civil, it would be unusual to find everyone agreeing - even if we were all on the same brand of birdseed.  ;D
2. Improving  - I have mentioned before, just a category for new releases - but, everyone is so creative and prolific it may not be feasible.

I don't know about mandatory critique and review. I'd like to think someone listens to my stuff because they like me and want to rather than the need to get though two songs so they can post theirs.

Vince
 

Offline Leonard Scaper

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Re: Input from our kitcheners to the kitchen staff - Summit 2017 #2
« Reply #23 on: October 13, 2017, 19:26:11 »
What I DO like about this place is how so many different kinds of music is offered by so many different types of songwriters and all of those kinds of music get mixed all in together and appreciated by everyone. There is serious cross-genre appreciation going on here.

What I DON'T like about this place is........ah........hmmmmm........I'll have to get back to you when I come up with something.  ;)

 :) :) :) :) :)

Offline MrBouzouki

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Re: Input from our kitcheners to the kitchen staff - Summit 2017 #2
« Reply #24 on: October 15, 2017, 22:17:21 »
Since I've already give some ideas for the Kitchen Summit previously, I thought instead I'd give you a musical treat that might put you in the right spirit for the summit.
My son pointed this video out to me and somehow it just reminded me of some crazy people who have something to do with running the Kitchen @Mar T. @Dutchbeat ???

Perhaps it might end up being the signature tune for the event ????

Enjoy ???  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

"Love and Life is all about connections"

Offline Mar T.

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Re: Input from our kitcheners to the kitchen staff - Summit 2017 #2
« Reply #25 on: October 15, 2017, 23:33:33 »
Hahahahaha @MrBouzouki !! Never heard of an 'otamatone' before, what a nice instrument!! And indeed a very great tune to use as (a part of) the soundtrack for our summit movies!!
But.. eh.. you didn't call us @Dutchbeat and me crazy did you?  :whistle: :whistle: :whistle:

Lol man, thanks for sharing!!
:mart:

Offline Bill from November Sound

Re: Input from our kitcheners to the kitchen staff - Summit 2017 #2
« Reply #26 on: October 15, 2017, 23:50:53 »
This thread is reaching new levels! :D
Bill
Songwriter, Keyboards, Arranger, Producer & Engineer for November Sound

Offline CrystalSuzy

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Ha ha ha @MrBouzouki  ;D ;D ;D   I'd never heard of an 'otamatone' before either ;D ;D Too funny, but so cool! I want one!  ::Suzy::

Offline Jim

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The thing I most like about the Kitchen is, like others have found, itís a great place to exchange ideas and music and not only support others but be supported ourselves.  We are an eclectic bunch with a wide range of tastes, skills and interests.  ;D In fact I think itís fair to say that between us weíve got the whole gamut of the songwriting and song creation process pretty much covered.  8) So to get back to what I like about here, itís knowing I can ask a question about, say, microphone placement or DAW plugins and Iím pretty much guaranteed an authoritative answer to that question, usually going into way more detail than I need, but thatís no bad thing, I can always revisit  Conversely, if someone asks a question about lyrics/poetry or music theory, Iíd like to think that I can help them gain a better understanding by sharing some of what I know, although I donít always have the capacity or time to do soÖ ::)

Öwhich brings me to my (rather internalized) negative, more of a dig at myself really, and thatís how little time I feel I have with regards to posting on the Kitchen, especially as I donít tend to be able to listen to music much in the evenings, and though I can at work, Iím usually too busy there to be able to post, so I end up in a state where I want to post replies to people, but then those replies get deferred until theyíre no longer relevant.  I thought things would get better after finishing my degree, but they donít seem to have.  >:(

As for a tip, Iíll give you two, because Iím generous! :D Firstly, itís a bit frustrating that search doesnít work very well, I realize weíre restricted by the platform weíre on but quite often I use search to find a particular post that I know has an unusual keyword in it and search says nothing found, then I can find the post another way and confirm the keyword is there.  Iím guessing other users have moaned about this on the providers website, so worth a search maybe? ??? Secondly, and I realize this might go against the tide a bit, and Iíve said it before elsewhere, but I really donít think that having strict rules and enforcing them is the way to goÖIíd much prefer to stick with the guidelines weíve got, and go down the positive reinforcement routeÖitís widely accepted positive reinforcement delivers better results from people, especially us sensitive artistic songwriter types, yeah?  ;)

Offline oorlab

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Re: Input from our kitcheners to the kitchen staff - Summit 2017 #2
« Reply #29 on: October 16, 2017, 21:19:43 »
just quickly browsing through this thread - wishing @Mar T.  - @Dutchbeat  & @Goatie  a splendid trip.
Can't say there is anything not to like about this Forum per se.
An idea - is it possible to have an end of year overview of some basic statistics of the last year: how many new members, how many left - how many votes for each competition. Other basic statistics? the adverts - do they generate income? Does it help the forum if we actually click on adverts?
Is there any basic hashtag for Songwriter - Kitchen related posts on twitter.

Cheers


recommending https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_Music_Works "How music works", book by David Byrne.