• Talk About The Weather - retitled "Don't Ask"
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  • Jurgen
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« Last Edit: July 17, 2019, 08:06:46 by Jurgen »
Hi all,

I came up with some words a couple of days ago and was able to write them down before I forgot them.

Now after a couple of days I've had another look at them and I think they're OK to try and create a song with.

They are very dark and I'm not too sure where or why I had those thoughts but I do think the dark, sad words make the best songs.

I'm thinking I'll need a bridge but for now this is what I've got - any feedback, suggestions would be appreciated.


verse
=====
When I talk about the weather
It's coz I've not nothing else to say
But when I'm alone I tend to speak my thoughts out loud

I don't look forward to my tomorrow
don't dwell on yesterday
there's nothing there I've done that makes me proud
no nothing I've done there that makes me proud

chorus
======
So don't ask me how I'm doing
I'll say I'm doing fine
And hold back the anguish on my mind

And I don't know where I'm going
or how I'll cross that line
With images of you still so defined
With images of you still so defined

verse
=====
The days are getting shorter
but there's still time left for me to fill
I've no religion or faith that'll help me pray

I see no end to all this darkness
the light in me has died
In truth It was never that bright anyway
it never shone that bright anyway

chorus
======
So don't ask me how I'm doing
I'll say I'm doing fine
And hold back the anguish on my mind

And I don't know where I'm going
or how I'll cross that line
With images of you still so defined

And I don't know where I'm going
or how I'll cross that line
Feel I'm being crushed, don't think I'll survive
Feel I'm being crushed, don't think I'll survive



Re: Talk About The Weather
Reply #1 on: May 31, 2019, 11:50:36
@Jurgen - indeed that could work in a slow brooding blues a la Nick Cave or Radiohead-ish music.
Only thing that struck me in this line

"don't dwell on yesterday"
might be missing some syllables, and you could try

"don't linger on my yesterday".

Good luck with the song!
recommending https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_Music_Works "How music works", book by David Byrne.


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Re: Talk About The Weather
Reply #2 on: May 31, 2019, 13:15:21
They are definitely deep and dark lyrics. But I agree that the dark lyrics can make for a good song as they can bring out an emotional performance.

What I have found with my own darker songs is that if you can find a way to sneak in brief rays of light somewhere it can really create an even better emotional dynamic. You have set up a possibility in the first chorus with this one by introducing:

With images of you still so defined

One possibility, if you were so inclined, would be to change the last two lines of the last chorus to:

With those images of you, I think I may survive
Yes those images of you could save my life


If you sang the lines with the same dark emotion of the rest of the song it might really create an interesting dynamic. Just a thought......



"The main thing is to have a gutsy approach....but use your head." Julia Child

 "In a world of robotic conformity, the only originality left in music is the imperfections" Eric Craptone

"Special thanks to Steve Gleason for making me who I am today." Leonard Scaper

Lenny's Tunes: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_music.cfm?bandID=540680

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Re: Talk About The Weather
Reply #3 on: June 01, 2019, 01:29:10
Thanks @oorlab  - I'm now working on actually singing this with a guitar and yes, you're right. Not enough syllables!

I'm now singing this with "and I don't dwell on yesterday" - which does seem to fit. I like your suggestions as well.

Very good point @Leonard Scaper - it does need something. I've put a bridge in and am playing around with some ideas, including yours.

I've come up:

I'm going to get strong
And pull though
I'm going to get there
And find you

I'll try and record a demo and post it.

thanks again for your suggestions both of you!

cheers




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iRe: Talk About The Weather
Reply #4 on: June 14, 2019, 09:55:41
« Last Edit: June 14, 2019, 10:40:50 by DonMar »
Good suggestions from others here, @Jurgen:) I'm a fan of 'dark' myself, but agree that a ray of light makes for an excellent contrast.

BTW, the second part of V1 brings specifically to mind lines from a poem by Robert Frost: 'Death of a Hired Hand'. Do you know it? If so, lovely reference.  :)

A few comments below from me (in red). I  hope they're helpful. Keep or sweep, of course.

Donna



I'm thinking I'll need a bridge but for now this is what I've got - any feedback, suggestions would be appreciated.

Bridge idea:
I'm going to get strong
And pull though
I'm going to get there
And find you

Rough example only of an alternative direction:

Some days I feel I won't survive
But then a tiny voice
Beckons from the shadows
'One more step, you're still alive'


I think by tightening the sections up a little, the flow will be smoother and more dynamic. In V1, for instance, I've dropped a couple of words/syllables to align the metering in lines 1-3 with lines 4-7.
verse 1
=====
I talk about the weather This is the only reference to the title/hook. Maybe use it instead in the chorus? You could start V1 instead with something like 'Don't ask me how I'm doing/coz I've nothing real to say'.
coz I've nothing else to say
But alone I tend to speak my thoughts out loud

I don't look forward to tomorrow
don't dwell on yesterday
there's nothing there I've done that makes me proud
no nothing I've done there that makes me proud

chorus The metering and rhyme scheme are basically the same as the verses. I'd suggest changing them dramatically so that there's a contrast.
======
So don't ask me how I'm doing
I'll say I'm doing fine
And hold back the anguish on my mind  Stronger might be 'You'll never know the anguish in my mind'.

I don't know where I'm going
or how I'll cross that line        What line? Suicide? Or the beginning of a place where the narrator will begin to heal?
With images of you still so defined
With images of you still so defined

Rough example only of a slightly different chorus structure. Just something to launch from. It's all about 1) providing a structural contrast to the verses and 2) repeating the title/hook,

Let's talk about the weather
Or the state the world is in
Let's talk about the weather
'Coz there's nowhere to begin
Describing the anguish in my mind
With my images of you still so defined
Let's talk about the weather
'Coz my images of you are so defined


verse 2
=====
The days are getting shorter
but there's time still  left to fill Slight rearrangement makes for a smoother flow.
I've no religion or faith that'll help me pray Maybe something like 'There's no hero in the sky to help me pray'. You also get a nice alliteration with 'hero'/'help'

I see no end to darkness
the light in me has died
It never did shine brightly anyway Metering now matches line 6, v1 better.
it never shone that bright anyway  Maybe 'no it never shone that brightly anyway'.

chorus
======
So don't ask me how I'm doing
I'll say I'm doing fine
And hold back the anguish on my mind

And I don't know where I'm going
or how I'll cross that line
With images of you still so defined

And I don't know where I'm going
or how I'll cross that line
Feel I'm being crushed, don't think I'll survive Maybe drop these last two lines if you decide to add a bridge.
Feel I'm being crushed, don't think I'll survive
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Honour the earth. Without It, we'd be nowhere. - D.D.


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Re: Talk About The Weather
Reply #5 on: June 15, 2019, 01:05:28
Thank you @DonMar - these are really helpful and useful suggestions.

I've got this one hold right now as I haven't come up with chords/melody that are different from other songs my band does. But I do want to work on it some more.

I had noticed that the chorus is the same structurally as the verse and I could see it working in a sort of 12 bar blues format because of this - but would be pretty boring I think as there wouldn't be enough change.

The "Talk about the weather" is really a working title for now - although these do tend to stick. Which means you make a very good point about that phrase only being mentioned the once at the start.

I have dropped those last two lines as well - much too dark! And replaced that with a bridge/outtro re: pulling through, getting strong etc.

I really like your suggestion for a chorus - re: talking about the weather to avoid the serious and emotional stuff.

Great feedback and comments Donna!

cheers


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Re: Talk About The Weather
Reply #6 on: July 17, 2019, 08:05:57
After leaving this one for a while, I've had another go.

My mood must be a bit brighter as it's not so dark anymore!  8)

I've also taken on board some of the ideas from @DonMar and @Leonard Scaper.

Here's the current version - now called "Don't Ask" and I'll record a demo soon as I've the basics of some chords and melody.

verse
=====
I been spending too much time watching tv
A Britsh cop show that makes no sense to me
I can't tell who's going to end up guilty
It's making no sense

Seeing presidents up on the world's stage
Looking thoughtful, while they try to contain their rage
Make their mark on history's page
See those leaders


chorus
======
But don't ask me how I'm doing
I'll say I'm doing fine

Don't ask me how I'm doing
Don't ask me


verse
=====
I need something to help me fill my day
I've no religion or faith to help me pray
And I try not to dwell on yesterday
But I need something


Not sure how to fill my time
I think I need to occupy my mind
And clear these images of you still so defined
These images of you


bridge
======
I used to need those images of you to survive
those images of you one time, could save my life

chorus
======
But don't ask me how I'm doing
I'll say I'm doing fine

Don't ask me how I'm doing
Don't ask me


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Re: Talk About The Weather - retitled "Don't Ask"
Reply #7 on: July 17, 2019, 14:48:09
I think you have done an excellent job of refining the emotional message. The darkness is still there but now there is also an element of control over that darkness which adds a nice dynamic to the story line.


Re: Talk About The Weather - retitled "Don't Ask"
Reply #8 on: July 17, 2019, 16:11:38
Nice @Jurgen the rhyming scheme and lyrical form (especially at those verses) is really cool. I can only imagine how you'll sing it! I'm looking forward to hearing this.  ;)
Bill
Songwriter, Keyboards, Arranger, Producer & Engineer for November Sound

November Sound is based on the Mother, Father & Son musical trio of Melissa, Bill & Will. I'm the father so anything I post will have my wife singing and/or my son playing percussion.



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