Songwriters in the Kitchen!

Board index => The kitchen cafť => Topic started by: Monty Cash Music on January 15, 2020, 17:12:49

Title: Discussion - Automatic Writing (Free writing)
Post by: Monty Cash Music on January 15, 2020, 17:12:49
I'm sure there's a few people here familiar with this term. I did a quick search on the forum and it got a couple of hits.

I'm highlighting it here primarily for use as a tool for musical inspiration for lyrics or poems but also as self therapy. I've found it's a tool that has greatly assisted me. I have been doing it on and off with breaks at points since I was about 16 (I'm now 33).

A few questions to answer if you feel like joining in:
1. What is it to you?
2. What is your method?
3. When do you normally do it?
4. Where do you normally do it?
5. Have you found the writings useful for songwriting/poetry or any other creative media creation?
6. How do you get over 'writer's block' with automatic writing?

===

Well I started the thread so I'll answer my own questions. Hello Monty, how are you? Oh, I'm just fine. Alright, answer the questions.

1. To me 'Automatic Writing' is a flow. It's a way of putting all the ions in the magnet of my brain in the same direction. I don't believe consciousness is inside the brain but rather it is an antenna and through tuning in to 'flow', we can tap into the many varied resources in the ether. (I'm aware this is hocus pocus to some people - we can start another thread on the concept of non-local consciousness, haha   :) )

Automatic Writing is also a way of letting off steam and just de-cluttering the mind after stressful situations. It can also often just help me get rid of mental noise in general and get more in tune with 'the moment'. But then again can also start a mental storm if I feel strongly about the thing I'm writing, haha.  ::)

As a non-expectational form of writing, it can help with flow of writing dreams or delicate matters of thought.

I feel automatic writing is a way to prepare my mind for when I want to flow on paper better when I AM ready to write a song.

It's also a way to become truly confident with words and the page, so it assists with building vocabulary and sentence structure for all forms of writing and oratory articulation (speeches, conversation).

2. I put a pen to paper and I write. Whatever is on the top of my head. If I start to get lost on a tangent, I either choose to completely lose myself on that tangent or just allow the next passing thought to be my next script. Sometimes I will write in lines of four, so it looks like poetry on paper. Sometimes I will have an idea of a song or rhythm in my head that I just write to. Sometimes I write whole long sentences. Sometimes it rhymes, sometimes its very didactic and sometimes it's crap. I've found though, that keeping up a consistent practice prepares the mind to do it later, again and again.

3. I normally write in the morning, first thing with a cup of coffee.

4. Where? In the comfort of whatever home I've found myself in. I also have done it outside sometimes, or sitting at a cafe, or even while watching a performance. I would like to discipline myself to do it more in public or in different places at different times because I feel often we share the same thoughts as those around us - changing the social setting can change the writing.

5. I have often used Automatic Writing for songs or poetry either exactly as it is written or edited and juggled around. It's just one more tool in the arsenal of ways to write a song, as there are many ways to go about writing a song.

6. Writer's block in Automatic Writing, can it exist? I say it can because sometimes there really is no motivation to put anything on paper. Often I have persisted anyway and I've found that after this short period of 'writing boredom' my mind has entered a light trance and then things flow more freely as before. Writing down things about the immediate vicinity of where you are assists greatly for me. Eg. I am sitting on a comfy leather couch, the feel is soft yet I am aware of the hide, my beer tastes sweet today, the sky is blue, the street is noisy, my head feels like a heavy brick. etc. I feel it helps lower the mind into a trance state to focus on these immediate sensations and get them on paper.

===

So what about you? Let me know your experiences with it and how it supports you in your creative work! Or maybe you'd like to start and don't know how.
Title: Re: Discussion - Automatic Writing
Post by: Leonard Scaper on January 15, 2020, 17:35:47
A quick Google search got me this:

Automatic writing or psychography is a claimed psychic ability allowing a person to produce written words without consciously writing. The words purportedly arise from a subconscious, spiritual or supernatural source.

It looks a little strange to me and as someone who has dabbled in lucid dreaming and practices dream yoga regularly, I am no stranger to strange.  ;)

I wonder if automatic writing is often confused with free writing. I definitely get a lot of my songs going through free writing.
Title: Re: Discussion - Automatic Writing
Post by: Monty Cash Music on January 15, 2020, 17:38:28
@Leonard Scaper

'Free writing' is probably the better term for it. Though I like the connotation of acting as a channel, so I'll just leave it as 'Automatic Writing'. I've just used this term my entire life. Ok, I'll make a quick edit to the post and put 'Free Writing' in brackets.

Thanks, the internet in my head didn't consider to contact the internet in the internet. haha
Title: Re: Discussion - Automatic Writing (Free writing)
Post by: Monty Cash Music on January 15, 2020, 17:43:10
@Leonard Scaper

But also, now I really consider it, the aim of automatic writing as I call it, for me is to get the point of 'flow' where I am not conscious of what I am putting on paper. A stream of information governed solely by intent. So I suppose, I am using the term correctly then.
Title: Re: Discussion - Automatic Writing (Free writing)
Post by: Monty Cash Music on January 15, 2020, 17:49:03
Likely I sound like an obnoxious arsehole looking to get shot down by an empiricist's cannon. Shoot away! I'm wide open, I've been there before. I'm used to getting flack for this sort of thing. But when grit comes to grit, it can't honestly be said one really lives to work and function and procreate and then die. We live for something else, something invisible, even if you don't believe in a god.

Edit: I realise what I've done - Here's a thread for the discussion of non-local consciousness haha - https://www.songwriter-forum-kitchen.com/forum/seo/3/discussion-non-local-consciousness/5951/
Title: Re: Discussion - Automatic Writing (Free writing)
Post by: LePlongeur on January 15, 2020, 19:19:13
The US is one of the last parts where LSD was ruled to be against the law. Was it 1975? Along that line.
Before that, professors at universities did introduce that drug into the colloquium to search for a community consciousness. I still wonder who was into space: the sober profs or the doped students.

I am not too keen on labels and names. Too often the dispute is more about the name than about the process. Mind you! In Dutch itís called automatisch schrift and you donít have to be a professor to understand it. I was taught to describe it in English as writing in a flow of consciousness.

When travelling I write choruses or hickeldy pickledies in my note book.
When at home I make use of these to write flow/free/automatic lyrics.
Iíve got an enormous amount of those stacked away while travelling.
When at home, save for weddings, parties I donít want to miss, I write a song per day

Lyrics about 20 minutes max to write. Turn the lyric into song, including all voices, instruments, a very very rough mix about 90 minutes.
Thatís why I canít promis anything to listeners. Suggestions about mix are taken into account, but I wonít go back. Suggestions are used for coming songs. Next songs, I donít know how to say tha5.
Constant polishing keeps me a ray from what I like best: songwriting.

When the well runs dry, I have all the time I need to polish, shine, go back a hundred times, look for perfection etc etc etc.

For now I think that perfection stinks. I like music with a fringe, a rough edge.
For what Eric and @Leonard Scaper says: (my words) strip away robot conformity and youíll have real music. Lenny will help out as usual, but this is the core of the story.

But no matter how you look at your post, it certainly makes me think about what I/we are doing.
Thereís no way of bettering it.
Kind regards, Gus


Edit: two typos
Title: Re: Discussion - Automatic Writing (Free writing)
Post by: Monty Cash Music on January 15, 2020, 20:18:56
@LePlongeur

But no matter how you look at your post, it certainly makes me think about what I/we are doing.
Thereís no way of bettering it.
Kind regards, Gus

It's quite funny that most will wait around for science to find fundamentally define why we can tap into this flow - and until then, not 'believe' in it. While others, just flow.

I understand there are two minds about this subject because there are those that are extremely pragmatic about their approach to music. Then there are pragmatic music makers that get together and create the belief system of an only 'pragmatic music world'.

It's hilarious that people go to jazz school to learn Louis Armstrong when (while technically a good musician) his playing that he is famous for was not written down, but based on 'feel'. This same 'feel' is flow in automatic writing, this is the same 'feel' in blues and improvisation of any form.

This 'feel' is flow. We tune in to it. It's why people with no musical training who can 'feel' how they want something, can learn a musical instrument on their own, not understanding any theory. This according to strictly pragmatic musicians, is not possible, or a fluke.

The joke of the century is 'jazz snobs' and 'blues snobs'. Arts that were based on 'feel' in their creation, are turned into a repetitive machine on how well you can reproduce something that was done before by someone that once used 'feel' way back then.

We tune into flow. We get used to flow flowing through us. We recognize it and we stand in humility at the riverside.

I discuss it and raise it here, because there is a grand misunderstanding of this in contemporary society. Ideas of music and creativity by dominant minds are pressed onto sensitive minds that already feel, but are 'tuned out' by institutions.

What if 'tuning into feel' was taught in schools in writing and musical improvisation and any creative art?

How would it affect our ability for empathy in greater society? I believe it would create a more equal reality.
Title: Re: Discussion - Automatic Writing (Free writing)
Post by: Dutchbeat on January 15, 2020, 20:44:32
great thread @Monty Cash Music   :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
@LePlongeur @Leonard Scaper
so much information and thoughts on this in this thread already

but @Monty Cash Music you ask about automatic writing, and ask these six  questions...and i want to answer these first, here they are:

"A few questions to answer if you feel like joining in:
1. What is it to you?
2. What is your method?
3. When do you normally do it?
4. Where do you normally do it?
5. Have you found the writings useful for songwriting/poetry or any other creative media creation?
6. How do you get over 'writer's block' with automatic writing?""

answers:
1. to me, it is just letting come up what comes up, and follow these thoughts
2. To sort of press play and record at the same time, and therefore record what comes up to me. in my case it usually means playing some instrumental track i just made,  humming to it, and almost automatically then ...the humming becomes a melody...and turns to words...etc.
nothing great though, but i like it
3.  I use it everytime when i have made something instrumental, and i have no singer, there are no lyrics written by anyone yet, and the music is also not made for a collab, of any kind, with another songwriter or kitchenaut, then i use this method
4. I do it on my music attic, i place a microphone on a small tripod next to my DAW computer, close to my mouth, and press record
5. i must admit, the results are often not really that great.. ;D ;D ;D ;D bad even, but i love doing it  :yes: :yes: :yes:  and i will continue to do it  :yes:
6. The point to me is, that there is no such thing as writers block, it always works

Title: Re: Discussion - Automatic Writing (Free writing)
Post by: Monty Cash Music on January 15, 2020, 20:56:08
1. to me, it is just letting come up what comes up, and follow these thoughts
This is it, yeah wow. It would have been great if I just skipped the spiritual flavor in my first post and just wrote this... haha  ;D

2. To sort of press play and record at the same time, and therefore record what comes up to me. in my case it usually means playing some instrumental track i just made,  humming to it, and almost automatically then ...the humming becomes a melody...and turns to words...etc.

We delve into free-form here, or at least what I call free-form. Not just writing but also just singing whatever in the moment, this same principle in improvisation of any instrument including the body in dancing. This pressing 'record and play' at the same time, this is what it's all about. You're not testing anything by trying something first, your doing it now and your doing it.. you're just doing it! There will be no edits, it just is!

6. The point to me is, that there is no such thing as writers block, it always works

This is also true. For me it's possibly more a personal rebellion against routine!  :makeitup:
Title: Re: Discussion - Automatic Writing (Free writing)
Post by: Monty Cash Music on January 15, 2020, 20:58:41
@Dutchbeat

I've also heard free-form described as jumping off a cliff. You don't know if you'll fly and you have to not be afraid to fall, you just fly!
Title: Re: Discussion - Automatic Writing (Free writing)
Post by: LePlongeur on January 16, 2020, 06:22:13
What if 'tuning into feel' was taught in schools in writing and musical improvisation and any creative art?

How would it affect our ability for empathy in greater society? I believe it would create a more equal reality.



Which is a small quote from @Monty Cash Music.
I pushed the wrong button and didnít want to ask for help.....

I think I would take this a step further. Instead of teaching this sort of subject at school, we would (as humans) gain a lot if we would stop hindering it. We actually unteach our children. All children I met in my life have a natural love for animals, color, music, free association with words (without looking for structure and meaning).

All this beauty is stopped by the way we teach our children. Including musical traning systems like the Suzuki method. This method is a rigorously system to severe senso motoric parts of our brains from the musical memory. So even many of the trainings aimed at teaching our children the worth of beauty, actually have the opposite effect.

Only two days ago I received a clip of my grandson (9) dancing to the birth of cool.
Many of his classroom mates wouldnít be caught dead doing such an abstract dance.
I think the main task (they hav many more of course) of his parents is not to teach him and his sister more, but teaching them to explore their emotions and talents.

Our youngest plays the violin since age three. It was a 1/16 violin. The smallest technically correct violin. And much to the chagrin of his teacher, I ruled out that he would stop if he made a mistake. I.e. I told him not to study, I told him to play. Mistakes and all. Doesnít make them better children, but it makes them happier children.
Happier people. I have made mistakes that were so wonderful, Ikd like to do them again. And yes, many of my songs revolve around this subject.
Kind regards, Gus

Title: Re: Discussion - Automatic Writing (Free writing)
Post by: Monty Cash Music on January 16, 2020, 11:40:37
@LePlongeur

Instead of teaching this sort of subject at school, we would (as humans) gain a lot if we would stop hindering it. We actually unteach our children. All children I met in my life have a natural love for animals, color, music, free association with words (without looking for structure and meaning).

Wow, this is it. Yes. Encouraging a general respect for natural expression simply by being. haha I've turned music into spirituality again.  :lol:

How sensitive these parts of ourselves can be as well. One critical comment by a close family member at a single moment in someone's developing life can also stunt that part of them forever; until one day, when all feels lost, they revisit that corner of their empty vapid soul when they are 56. What a waste!

How to teach or encourage a general respect for sensitivity? We can be the example. But how to stop this militant hindering of it by dogmatic thinking and dogmatic approaches to creative arts?

Let's get out on the streets and scream at people! Oh, wait, I already do that. haha, let's do it en masse! Scream at this vile world and the absurd joke it has become! Hurrah! Away with your debilitating nonsense oh sick world of the current expression of now!
Title: Re: Discussion - Automatic Writing (Free writing)
Post by: MRose on January 16, 2020, 13:48:43
1. What is it to you?
Automatic writing is a great method for clearing out space in your mind and for connecting to your creative / subconscious mind.

2. What is your method?
I enjoy writing Morning Pages, using a method similar to the one described in Julia Cameron's The Artist's Way; longhand, often nonsensical steam-of-consciousness writing. The goal is to clear your mind out and to set the writing aside for a few weeks before revisiting it. Some people I know burn all of the pages without ever reading them! Some of it might be great, most of it will be crap, but it's the process that's important.

3. When do you normally do it?
In the morning, still half-awake.

4. Where do you normally do it?
Usually at home, sometimes out and about at work / at cafes in the city.

5. Have you found the writings useful for songwriting/poetry or any other creative media creation?
Sometimes. When I do automatic writing, it's usually long-form and it ends up sounding more Proustian and less poetic. The writing that comes to me after I've cleared my mind seems more valuable, but if I take odd phrases and edit them, they can make good lyrics or an idea for a song.

6. How do you get over 'writer's block' with automatic writing?
I think automatic writing is a method to clear writer's block!
Title: Re: Discussion - Automatic Writing (Free writing)
Post by: LePlongeur on January 16, 2020, 14:35:40
What suddenly draws my attention, is that we donít seem to differentiate between writing lyrics and composing.
So both activities are automatic for me.
I donít believe for a second that it bares underlying psychological things. That crap has been dreamed up by the some clown to propagate  the misconception that women have something to do with penis envy and they are deeply handicapped by that illness.

Half of my friends are male and half female. Many of them friends for over 30 years. As none of the women are penis envy disturbed, and one senile old fart insiststhat they do, I have no difficulty at all believing whose side I am on.

It was a very clever way to earn a massive income in a time when half of the population couldnít read or write.
So itís no hocus pocus; Itís creativity.
Itís only an opinion, but itís mine @Monty Cash Music .
Kind regards, Gus

Title: Re: Discussion - Automatic Writing (Free writing)
Post by: Leonard Scaper on January 16, 2020, 14:56:53
Hey @MRose ....Welcome to The Kitchen!!!!!

Stop over at the "Me" section and tell us  more about yourself.

*now back to our regularly scheduled discussion*

 8)
Title: Re: Discussion - Automatic Writing (Free writing)
Post by: Dutchbeat on January 16, 2020, 17:57:03
hi @MRose  :thumbsup: :thumbsup: welcome to the kitchen, thanks for joining!
Title: Re: Discussion - Automatic Writing (Free writing)
Post by: Monty Cash Music on January 16, 2020, 23:08:36
@LePlongeur   :lol:

@MRose Thanks for joining in at my invitation, now that you're here you'll have to go through the correct government channels in order to achieve ultimate catharsis via the 'Kitchener's music method'.  Only then will love drug be administered.  :praise: :lol: (ps forum admins, I love the old-school selection of emoticons here, they make me happy)

I enjoy writing Morning Pages, using a method similar to the one described in Julia Cameron's The Artist's Way; longhand, often nonsensical steam-of-consciousness writing. The goal is to clear your mind out and to set the writing aside for a few weeks before revisiting it. Some people I know burn all of the pages without ever reading them! Some of it might be great, most of it will be crap, but it's the process that's important.

I just looked her up. She is an inspiration to many. I feel that with free-writing or other forms of creative open ended non-self-judged non-expectational expression, if done regularly over a period of time, can overcome any creative blockage. (phew! what a sentence!) And also @LePlongeur 's mention of the 'well drying up', is an important part of long-term creativity, to recognize this and not to judge the self for it. 

3. When do you normally do it?
In the morning, still half-awake.

This mind when it is half awake, is such a lucid place. I feel even the action of getting a coffee first disturbs this at times. The warm cup in my hand is a trigger for my mind. Your method seems like a great way to avoid needing to find a way back to the lucid place. I so look forward to my cup of coffee though. I'll continue to write my half page of slag to get myself back there!   :D

4. Where do you normally do it?
Usually at home, sometimes out and about at work / at cafes in the city.

Nice, love to hear that you do it outside of the home in open social settings.

Also love your mention later of the word 'Proustian'. I'm now enlightened.  :) Do you also write your dreams or include your dreams in your free-writing? Or maybe this is a separate thing for you? (possible new thread discussion topic, 'Dream Diaries and Dreams'). Jesus, I'll just start my own cult or something and be done with it! haha
Title: Re: Discussion - Automatic Writing (Free writing)
Post by: MRose on January 16, 2020, 23:23:22
@Leonard Scaper @Dutchbeat Thank you! & I'll be sure to write an introduction soon.

@Monty Cash Music Yes, I often end up writing my dreams down, since they're only really fresh / memorable in the morning. Otherwise, I end up writing or recreating conversations, thoughts, abstract ideas. On a good day, even short stories! It's a lot of fun.

 ::Note:: 
Title: Re: Discussion - Automatic Writing (Free writing)
Post by: oorlab on January 17, 2020, 00:11:09
1. What is it to you?
 - free writing for me is out of the box, unfocused - catching coincidental impressions
2. What is your method?
 - keeping pen & paper and a recorder at hand
3. When do you normally do it?
 - when- and wherever, lately while riding my bike. I then stop to jot down what popped up
4. Where do you normally do it?
 - the place seems to choose itself, now I think about it, it happens while I am on the move.
5. Have you found the writings useful for songwriting/poetry or any other creative media creation?
 - off course, but not all of the time. An idea presents itself in the half conscious (pythia) state, but then I take the basic idea and start building it in a more goal oriented way.
6. How do you get over 'writer's block' with automatic writing?""
 - by reading other people's poetry, or listening to domo's from well-known songwriters - the versions before they were turned into full productions. I love how John Lennon is fiddling around with the basic chords and opening lines of Strawberry Fields here : https://youtu.be/T6SXqT8Qp-4 (https://youtu.be/T6SXqT8Qp-4)

Interesting topic
@Monty Cash Music . Reminded me of a book I browsed through this week
Thinking fast and slow by Daniel Kahneman
In it there is a description of 2 systems
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thinking,_Fast_and_Slow#Two_systems (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thinking,_Fast_and_Slow#Two_systems)
2 ways the brain forms thoughts
1 : System 1: Fast, automatic, frequent, emotional, stereotypic, unconscious
2 : System 2: Slow, effortful, infrequent, logical, calculating, conscious.

I guess I alternate between 1 and 2 when making music.
Title: Re: Discussion - Automatic Writing (Free writing)
Post by: Leonard Scaper on January 17, 2020, 01:30:59
@Monty Cash Music Yes, I often end up writing my dreams down, since they're only really fresh / memorable in the morning.

I get up during the night to capture the essence of my dreams at the end of sleep cycles. But then I am engaging in some other interesting nocturnal.......meditations.....that are benefited by that practice.

My best lyrics are often there for me early in the morning as I start my day.
Title: Re: Discussion - Automatic Writing (Free writing)
Post by: Bill from November Sound on January 17, 2020, 04:22:18
This is fascinating that you all are calling this free and automatic  .... but you have sort of have scheduled times when you do it.  :)
That's really cool.
I kind of wish I could do that.
I did a writing workshop once where they showed us how to do this at a specific time each day and so on. I probably could I just can't get into the flow.  :)
My songs come to me at very random times .... and it can really interfere with important parts of life such as sleeping.  :sleepy:
 
Title: Re: Discussion - Automatic Writing (Free writing)
Post by: LePlongeur on January 17, 2020, 09:13:05
I would like to explain what I meant with Ďwhen the well dries upí.
What I meant is: look at all the people who write music. As an average they more or less stop writing when they are 50ish. They donít flinch when interviewed, they put on a stage smile and have great plans for future recordings blah blah blah. But in fact when you listen closely, the feeling that theyíve said it all is the overriding sentiment.

So if it happened to many people, i must take into account that it would be better to write as much as I can until I am 50.

And when that time comes, I have all the time I need to leafe through my work. And polish up the good ones.
Kind regards, Gus
Title: Re: Discussion - Automatic Writing (Free writing)
Post by: Leonard Scaper on January 17, 2020, 17:16:58
look at all the people who write music. As an average they more or less stop writing when they are 50ish. They donít flinch when interviewed, they put on a stage smile and have great plans for future recordings blah blah blah.

Interesting observation there, Gus. Most of my Soundclick catalog was written after I turned 50.....that's somewhere around 300 tunes.

And I have great plans for future recordings (said with  my best stage smile).  ;D
Title: Re: Discussion - Automatic Writing (Free writing)
Post by: Mo on January 17, 2020, 17:21:46

Interesting observation there, Gus. Most of my Soundclick catalog was written after I turned 50.....that's somewhere around 300 tunes.

And I have great plans for future recordings (said with  my best stage smile).  ;D
ahahahaa thats good point @Leonard Scaper

I would need hurry hurry hurry  hurry hurry hurry if i should ride the 'well' untill  I'm  fifty.  :blackgrin:
Good to know there are exceptions also ::Bones::
Title: Re: Discussion - Automatic Writing (Free writing)
Post by: LePlongeur on January 17, 2020, 18:16:05
look at all the people who write music. As an average they more or less stop writing when they are 50ish. They donít flinch when interviewed, they put on a stage smile and have great plans for future recordings blah blah blah.

Interesting observation there, Gus. Most of my Soundclick catalog was written after I turned 50.....that's somewhere around 300 tunes.

And I have great plans for future recordings (said with  my best stage smile).  ;D

Your best stage smile is good enough for me, @Leonard Scaper . I am totally convinced.
But just for the f*, what I meant of course is for the fun of it, make a list of your 10 big heroes.
Mine includes, Carole King, John Fogerty, Johnny Cash, Leonard Bernstein (to name a few) and check what they did after 50. Itís not for nothing that you are a giant amidst heroes..Very relevant music too. Not just loudspeaker pollution.....

This doesnít count for the lady who wrote Jolene, because she cheats. About her age I mean.
Really, I wish I could tell another theory.
Kind regards, Gus
Title: Re: Discussion - Automatic Writing (Free writing)
Post by: Monty Cash Music on January 26, 2020, 19:35:58
@oorlab I read that book too! It's very good! I should re-visit it again, so thanks for reminding me!

@Bill from November Sound Well this method itself is called 'free writing', although yes, we can write whenever we like in whatever way and that is free also... This is a specific way of writing whatever is on the mind without expectation or structure for a set amount of time or pages. It's not specifically for lyrics in songs. It is also a great way to clear the mind. Many times however, these words can be edited and added or made into a song... or burned... haha.

@LePlongeur I hear you and getting to 34 has taught me about energies waning. I feel however that we can find a collective 'well' and serve the purpose of that collective, this refills our supply. Often I get a lot of energy from encouraging others to be creative. For example, young people that have a spark of potential or self belief and just need a little direction. By helping others we get more energy. When my life and ways of doing things get too ego-centric my well becomes dry. I am not saying this is you, things naturally come with age. People are our panacea, even for hermits. We need people. It's a hard lesson. Personally I don't like people so much.  :lol:
Title: Re: Discussion - Automatic Writing (Free writing)
Post by: 1roomstudio on February 09, 2020, 19:46:24
Quote
Only two days ago I received a clip of my grandson (9) dancing to the birth of cool.
Many of his classroom mates wouldnít be caught dead doing such an abstract dance.
I think the main task (they hav many more of course) of his parents is not to teach him and his sister more, but teaching them to explore their emotions and talents.

Amen to that!  ::thumb::
Title: Re: Discussion - Automatic Writing (Free writing)
Post by: 1roomstudio on February 09, 2020, 20:09:14
Quote
I ruled out that he would stop if he made a mistake. I.e. I told him not to study, I told him to play.

Imagine if all musicians stopped when they made a mistake!!! we would never get to the end of any piece. Itís the flow that makes the music. The correctness of any moment in the piece is relative and a matter of degree.

If you stop every time you make a mistake then all youíve learned is ďhere comes the part where I stop.Ē You reinforce the mistake by stopping and actually get better at making the mistake and stopping as though itís part of the piece.

Automatic writing is writing without stopping...  with music, stopping the flow stops the music, and that is the worst possible mistake. With writing you can stop and no one notices... but by stopping the flow you have lost, forever, what would have come next....

See that... I just stopped 😎

If you want to smooth out a rough spot in a piece then you START! with that spot, play through it and keep repeating until you get it right.... then itís OK to stop.

When teaching beginners I always insist that they learn the rhythm and the groove first...then the notes will more or less take care of themselves. I demonstrate this by tapping out the rhythm to Mary had a Little Lamb... with no notes... itís still recognizable. If you play the notes in the correct order, but without the correct rhythm... itís not recognizable... even though you know itís the notes to Mary had a Little Lamb.
Title: Re: Discussion - Automatic Writing (Free writing)
Post by: MrBouzouki on February 16, 2020, 11:31:32
For me, my system is I don't have a system. I can go from being very well ordered to chaotic and I like it this way.

For me, freedom is all about allowing yourself to think how you want to. You can either use logic, structure, the wisdom of experience, or you can be abstract and just go with the flow.

So song-writing for me,  be they instrumental or with words attached, is a random sort of activity that taps you on the shoulder or doesn't. I don't feel comped to write or make music, but I love the act of singing (choir etc) so I'm always listening and learning. I was classed as an 'ideas man' at work, (scientific research), but put me in a room and try and force me to come up with ideas and I would often fail.

Ideas creep up on me when I'm not looking, washing the dishes, cutting the grass. The trick is to capture them some way, to ruminate on down the road if you are busy, or just do it in a flurry of notes or words if you can spare the time.

Perfection is another one of those things that depends upon a listeners point of view. If a performance is technically correct, some people might call it cold and lacking emotion, others would say it's the best thing they have ever heard. If it's less than perfect, somebody might call it rubbish, whilst another would say it has soul and is authentic. The most interesting thing is a viewpoint can change to some degree depending upon your emotional and physical state. This might also happen down the years which is why you can't listen to some music any more. Your viewpoint has changed, the music hasn't.




 




 
Title: Re: Discussion - Automatic Writing (Free writing)
Post by: Monty Cash Music on February 16, 2020, 15:31:38
@1roomstudio

This principle of flow is to me the point of automatic writing, freeform expression and improvisation. By whatever means we come by it, by following our intuition, it doesn't matter. Automatic writing like other things is a tool to find that flow, to tap into a weak or subtle signal and to make it stronger with focus. Good point to bring up! It's great we are working from the same canvas.

@MrBouzouki

It's great to keep recordings online I find, like a catalogue, even if only for the self. So as to guage where we are going. I feel the culture of perfectionism and insecurity with expression because it's not up to standard can inhibit us.

I despise an industry that expects you to walk out of a box perfect.

It's great to see what we did 10 years ago, see how real our enthusiasm was for our material then and what merit it has by the you of today.

If anything music is a tool for self discovery. We express, we're inspired, we write and we sing and then we put it on the shelf. Then later we laugh at ourselves and how obsessed we were with something, or how amazing we thought we were.

The narcissistic culture has led us down the dark path of the self 'chosen' auto-elite.

I feel it's better to put something out there, even if it's not finished or up to our high unrealistic standards because the waves of the ether change and tomorrow we'll be inspired by something else.

We are channels of the greater collective in this sense, only once we have disposed of our narcissism.