• Discussion - Automatic Writing (Free writing)
  • Started by Monty Cash Music
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
  • Monty Cash Music
  • Rotisseur
  • *

    • 290


    • 62
    • Yesterday at 09:15:45
    • inside the atomic fabric of a page, only when it is turning
  • more
Discussion - Automatic Writing (Free writing)
on: January 15, 2020, 17:12:49
« Last Edit: January 15, 2020, 17:39:22 by Monty Cash Music »
I'm sure there's a few people here familiar with this term. I did a quick search on the forum and it got a couple of hits.

I'm highlighting it here primarily for use as a tool for musical inspiration for lyrics or poems but also as self therapy. I've found it's a tool that has greatly assisted me. I have been doing it on and off with breaks at points since I was about 16 (I'm now 33).

A few questions to answer if you feel like joining in:
1. What is it to you?
2. What is your method?
3. When do you normally do it?
4. Where do you normally do it?
5. Have you found the writings useful for songwriting/poetry or any other creative media creation?
6. How do you get over 'writer's block' with automatic writing?

===

Well I started the thread so I'll answer my own questions. Hello Monty, how are you? Oh, I'm just fine. Alright, answer the questions.

1. To me 'Automatic Writing' is a flow. It's a way of putting all the ions in the magnet of my brain in the same direction. I don't believe consciousness is inside the brain but rather it is an antenna and through tuning in to 'flow', we can tap into the many varied resources in the ether. (I'm aware this is hocus pocus to some people - we can start another thread on the concept of non-local consciousness, haha   :) )

Automatic Writing is also a way of letting off steam and just de-cluttering the mind after stressful situations. It can also often just help me get rid of mental noise in general and get more in tune with 'the moment'. But then again can also start a mental storm if I feel strongly about the thing I'm writing, haha.  ::)

As a non-expectational form of writing, it can help with flow of writing dreams or delicate matters of thought.

I feel automatic writing is a way to prepare my mind for when I want to flow on paper better when I AM ready to write a song.

It's also a way to become truly confident with words and the page, so it assists with building vocabulary and sentence structure for all forms of writing and oratory articulation (speeches, conversation).

2. I put a pen to paper and I write. Whatever is on the top of my head. If I start to get lost on a tangent, I either choose to completely lose myself on that tangent or just allow the next passing thought to be my next script. Sometimes I will write in lines of four, so it looks like poetry on paper. Sometimes I will have an idea of a song or rhythm in my head that I just write to. Sometimes I write whole long sentences. Sometimes it rhymes, sometimes its very didactic and sometimes it's crap. I've found though, that keeping up a consistent practice prepares the mind to do it later, again and again.

3. I normally write in the morning, first thing with a cup of coffee.

4. Where? In the comfort of whatever home I've found myself in. I also have done it outside sometimes, or sitting at a cafe, or even while watching a performance. I would like to discipline myself to do it more in public or in different places at different times because I feel often we share the same thoughts as those around us - changing the social setting can change the writing.

5. I have often used Automatic Writing for songs or poetry either exactly as it is written or edited and juggled around. It's just one more tool in the arsenal of ways to write a song, as there are many ways to go about writing a song.

6. Writer's block in Automatic Writing, can it exist? I say it can because sometimes there really is no motivation to put anything on paper. Often I have persisted anyway and I've found that after this short period of 'writing boredom' my mind has entered a light trance and then things flow more freely as before. Writing down things about the immediate vicinity of where you are assists greatly for me. Eg. I am sitting on a comfy leather couch, the feel is soft yet I am aware of the hide, my beer tastes sweet today, the sky is blue, the street is noisy, my head feels like a heavy brick. etc. I feel it helps lower the mind into a trance state to focus on these immediate sensations and get them on paper.

===

So what about you? Let me know your experiences with it and how it supports you in your creative work! Or maybe you'd like to start and don't know how.
Find updates on my travels and music on http://peakd.com/@montycashmusic


Re: Discussion - Automatic Writing
Reply #1 on: January 15, 2020, 17:35:47
A quick Google search got me this:

Automatic writing or psychography is a claimed psychic ability allowing a person to produce written words without consciously writing. The words purportedly arise from a subconscious, spiritual or supernatural source.

It looks a little strange to me and as someone who has dabbled in lucid dreaming and practices dream yoga regularly, I am no stranger to strange.  ;)

I wonder if automatic writing is often confused with free writing. I definitely get a lot of my songs going through free writing.
"The main thing is to have a gutsy approach....but use your head." Julia Child

 "In a world of robotic conformity, the only originality left in music is the imperfections" Eric Craptone

"Special thanks to Steve Gleason for making me who I am today." Leonard Scaper

Lenny's Tunes: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_music.cfm?bandID=540680

https://soundcloud.com/vincentgleason


  • Monty Cash Music
  • Rotisseur
  • *

    • 290


    • 62
    • Yesterday at 09:15:45
    • inside the atomic fabric of a page, only when it is turning
  • more
Re: Discussion - Automatic Writing
Reply #2 on: January 15, 2020, 17:38:28
@Leonard Scaper

'Free writing' is probably the better term for it. Though I like the connotation of acting as a channel, so I'll just leave it as 'Automatic Writing'. I've just used this term my entire life. Ok, I'll make a quick edit to the post and put 'Free Writing' in brackets.

Thanks, the internet in my head didn't consider to contact the internet in the internet. haha


  • Monty Cash Music
  • Rotisseur
  • *

    • 290


    • 62
    • Yesterday at 09:15:45
    • inside the atomic fabric of a page, only when it is turning
  • more
Re: Discussion - Automatic Writing (Free writing)
Reply #3 on: January 15, 2020, 17:43:10
@Leonard Scaper

But also, now I really consider it, the aim of automatic writing as I call it, for me is to get the point of 'flow' where I am not conscious of what I am putting on paper. A stream of information governed solely by intent. So I suppose, I am using the term correctly then.


  • Monty Cash Music
  • Rotisseur
  • *

    • 290


    • 62
    • Yesterday at 09:15:45
    • inside the atomic fabric of a page, only when it is turning
  • more
Re: Discussion - Automatic Writing (Free writing)
Reply #4 on: January 15, 2020, 17:49:03
« Last Edit: January 15, 2020, 17:56:48 by Monty Cash Music »
Likely I sound like an obnoxious arsehole looking to get shot down by an empiricist's cannon. Shoot away! I'm wide open, I've been there before. I'm used to getting flack for this sort of thing. But when grit comes to grit, it can't honestly be said one really lives to work and function and procreate and then die. We live for something else, something invisible, even if you don't believe in a god.

Edit: I realise what I've done - Here's a thread for the discussion of non-local consciousness haha - https://www.songwriter-forum-kitchen.com/forum/seo/3/discussion-non-local-consciousness/5951/


  • LePlongeur
  • Executive Chef
  • *
  • In Tartiflette we trust

    • 2098


    • 433
    • Yesterday at 16:47:56
    • Greater Amsterdam
  • more
Re: Discussion - Automatic Writing (Free writing)
Reply #5 on: January 15, 2020, 19:19:13
« Last Edit: January 16, 2020, 05:52:40 by LePlongeur »
The US is one of the last parts where LSD was ruled to be against the law. Was it 1975? Along that line.
Before that, professors at universities did introduce that drug into the colloquium to search for a community consciousness. I still wonder who was into space: the sober profs or the doped students.

I am not too keen on labels and names. Too often the dispute is more about the name than about the process. Mind you! In Dutch itís called automatisch schrift and you donít have to be a professor to understand it. I was taught to describe it in English as writing in a flow of consciousness.

When travelling I write choruses or hickeldy pickledies in my note book.
When at home I make use of these to write flow/free/automatic lyrics.
Iíve got an enormous amount of those stacked away while travelling.
When at home, save for weddings, parties I donít want to miss, I write a song per day

Lyrics about 20 minutes max to write. Turn the lyric into song, including all voices, instruments, a very very rough mix about 90 minutes.
Thatís why I canít promis anything to listeners. Suggestions about mix are taken into account, but I wonít go back. Suggestions are used for coming songs. Next songs, I donít know how to say tha5.
Constant polishing keeps me a ray from what I like best: songwriting.

When the well runs dry, I have all the time I need to polish, shine, go back a hundred times, look for perfection etc etc etc.

For now I think that perfection stinks. I like music with a fringe, a rough edge.
For what Eric and @Leonard Scaper says: (my words) strip away robot conformity and youíll have real music. Lenny will help out as usual, but this is the core of the story.

But no matter how you look at your post, it certainly makes me think about what I/we are doing.
Thereís no way of bettering it.
Kind regards, Gus


Edit: two typos


  • Monty Cash Music
  • Rotisseur
  • *

    • 290


    • 62
    • Yesterday at 09:15:45
    • inside the atomic fabric of a page, only when it is turning
  • more
Re: Discussion - Automatic Writing (Free writing)
Reply #6 on: January 15, 2020, 20:18:56
« Last Edit: January 15, 2020, 20:24:27 by Monty Cash Music »
@LePlongeur

But no matter how you look at your post, it certainly makes me think about what I/we are doing.
Thereís no way of bettering it.
Kind regards, Gus

It's quite funny that most will wait around for science to find fundamentally define why we can tap into this flow - and until then, not 'believe' in it. While others, just flow.

I understand there are two minds about this subject because there are those that are extremely pragmatic about their approach to music. Then there are pragmatic music makers that get together and create the belief system of an only 'pragmatic music world'.

It's hilarious that people go to jazz school to learn Louis Armstrong when (while technically a good musician) his playing that he is famous for was not written down, but based on 'feel'. This same 'feel' is flow in automatic writing, this is the same 'feel' in blues and improvisation of any form.

This 'feel' is flow. We tune in to it. It's why people with no musical training who can 'feel' how they want something, can learn a musical instrument on their own, not understanding any theory. This according to strictly pragmatic musicians, is not possible, or a fluke.

The joke of the century is 'jazz snobs' and 'blues snobs'. Arts that were based on 'feel' in their creation, are turned into a repetitive machine on how well you can reproduce something that was done before by someone that once used 'feel' way back then.

We tune into flow. We get used to flow flowing through us. We recognize it and we stand in humility at the riverside.

I discuss it and raise it here, because there is a grand misunderstanding of this in contemporary society. Ideas of music and creativity by dominant minds are pressed onto sensitive minds that already feel, but are 'tuned out' by institutions.

What if 'tuning into feel' was taught in schools in writing and musical improvisation and any creative art?

How would it affect our ability for empathy in greater society? I believe it would create a more equal reality.


  • Dutchbeat
  • Administrator
  • Michelin Starred Chef
  • *
  • *
  • If you can stand the Beat, get into the Kitchen!

    • 9582


    • 1466
    • Yesterday at 21:51:23
  • more
Re: Discussion - Automatic Writing (Free writing)
Reply #7 on: January 15, 2020, 20:44:32
great thread @Monty Cash Music   :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
@LePlongeur @Leonard Scaper
so much information and thoughts on this in this thread already

but @Monty Cash Music you ask about automatic writing, and ask these six  questions...and i want to answer these first, here they are:

"A few questions to answer if you feel like joining in:
1. What is it to you?
2. What is your method?
3. When do you normally do it?
4. Where do you normally do it?
5. Have you found the writings useful for songwriting/poetry or any other creative media creation?
6. How do you get over 'writer's block' with automatic writing?""

answers:
1. to me, it is just letting come up what comes up, and follow these thoughts
2. To sort of press play and record at the same time, and therefore record what comes up to me. in my case it usually means playing some instrumental track i just made,  humming to it, and almost automatically then ...the humming becomes a melody...and turns to words...etc.
nothing great though, but i like it
3.  I use it everytime when i have made something instrumental, and i have no singer, there are no lyrics written by anyone yet, and the music is also not made for a collab, of any kind, with another songwriter or kitchenaut, then i use this method
4. I do it on my music attic, i place a microphone on a small tripod next to my DAW computer, close to my mouth, and press record
5. i must admit, the results are often not really that great.. ;D ;D ;D ;D bad even, but i love doing it  :yes: :yes: :yes:  and i will continue to do it  :yes:
6. The point to me is, that there is no such thing as writers block, it always works

me, myself, and Pie


  • Monty Cash Music
  • Rotisseur
  • *

    • 290


    • 62
    • Yesterday at 09:15:45
    • inside the atomic fabric of a page, only when it is turning
  • more
Re: Discussion - Automatic Writing (Free writing)
Reply #8 on: January 15, 2020, 20:56:08
1. to me, it is just letting come up what comes up, and follow these thoughts
This is it, yeah wow. It would have been great if I just skipped the spiritual flavor in my first post and just wrote this... haha  ;D

2. To sort of press play and record at the same time, and therefore record what comes up to me. in my case it usually means playing some instrumental track i just made,  humming to it, and almost automatically then ...the humming becomes a melody...and turns to words...etc.

We delve into free-form here, or at least what I call free-form. Not just writing but also just singing whatever in the moment, this same principle in improvisation of any instrument including the body in dancing. This pressing 'record and play' at the same time, this is what it's all about. You're not testing anything by trying something first, your doing it now and your doing it.. you're just doing it! There will be no edits, it just is!

6. The point to me is, that there is no such thing as writers block, it always works

This is also true. For me it's possibly more a personal rebellion against routine!  :makeitup:


  • Monty Cash Music
  • Rotisseur
  • *

    • 290


    • 62
    • Yesterday at 09:15:45
    • inside the atomic fabric of a page, only when it is turning
  • more
Re: Discussion - Automatic Writing (Free writing)
Reply #9 on: January 15, 2020, 20:58:41
@Dutchbeat

I've also heard free-form described as jumping off a cliff. You don't know if you'll fly and you have to not be afraid to fall, you just fly!


  • LePlongeur
  • Executive Chef
  • *
  • In Tartiflette we trust

    • 2098


    • 433
    • Yesterday at 16:47:56
    • Greater Amsterdam
  • more
Re: Discussion - Automatic Writing (Free writing)
Reply #10 on: January 16, 2020, 06:22:13
What if 'tuning into feel' was taught in schools in writing and musical improvisation and any creative art?

How would it affect our ability for empathy in greater society? I believe it would create a more equal reality.



Which is a small quote from @Monty Cash Music.
I pushed the wrong button and didnít want to ask for help.....

I think I would take this a step further. Instead of teaching this sort of subject at school, we would (as humans) gain a lot if we would stop hindering it. We actually unteach our children. All children I met in my life have a natural love for animals, color, music, free association with words (without looking for structure and meaning).

All this beauty is stopped by the way we teach our children. Including musical traning systems like the Suzuki method. This method is a rigorously system to severe senso motoric parts of our brains from the musical memory. So even many of the trainings aimed at teaching our children the worth of beauty, actually have the opposite effect.

Only two days ago I received a clip of my grandson (9) dancing to the birth of cool.
Many of his classroom mates wouldnít be caught dead doing such an abstract dance.
I think the main task (they hav many more of course) of his parents is not to teach him and his sister more, but teaching them to explore their emotions and talents.

Our youngest plays the violin since age three. It was a 1/16 violin. The smallest technically correct violin. And much to the chagrin of his teacher, I ruled out that he would stop if he made a mistake. I.e. I told him not to study, I told him to play. Mistakes and all. Doesnít make them better children, but it makes them happier children.
Happier people. I have made mistakes that were so wonderful, Ikd like to do them again. And yes, many of my songs revolve around this subject.
Kind regards, Gus



  • Monty Cash Music
  • Rotisseur
  • *

    • 290


    • 62
    • Yesterday at 09:15:45
    • inside the atomic fabric of a page, only when it is turning
  • more
Re: Discussion - Automatic Writing (Free writing)
Reply #11 on: January 16, 2020, 11:40:37
« Last Edit: January 16, 2020, 11:42:29 by Monty Cash Music »
@LePlongeur

Instead of teaching this sort of subject at school, we would (as humans) gain a lot if we would stop hindering it. We actually unteach our children. All children I met in my life have a natural love for animals, color, music, free association with words (without looking for structure and meaning).

Wow, this is it. Yes. Encouraging a general respect for natural expression simply by being. haha I've turned music into spirituality again.  :lol:

How sensitive these parts of ourselves can be as well. One critical comment by a close family member at a single moment in someone's developing life can also stunt that part of them forever; until one day, when all feels lost, they revisit that corner of their empty vapid soul when they are 56. What a waste!

How to teach or encourage a general respect for sensitivity? We can be the example. But how to stop this militant hindering of it by dogmatic thinking and dogmatic approaches to creative arts?

Let's get out on the streets and scream at people! Oh, wait, I already do that. haha, let's do it en masse! Scream at this vile world and the absurd joke it has become! Hurrah! Away with your debilitating nonsense oh sick world of the current expression of now!


Re: Discussion - Automatic Writing (Free writing)
Reply #12 on: January 16, 2020, 13:48:43
1. What is it to you?
Automatic writing is a great method for clearing out space in your mind and for connecting to your creative / subconscious mind.

2. What is your method?
I enjoy writing Morning Pages, using a method similar to the one described in Julia Cameron's The Artist's Way; longhand, often nonsensical steam-of-consciousness writing. The goal is to clear your mind out and to set the writing aside for a few weeks before revisiting it. Some people I know burn all of the pages without ever reading them! Some of it might be great, most of it will be crap, but it's the process that's important.

3. When do you normally do it?
In the morning, still half-awake.

4. Where do you normally do it?
Usually at home, sometimes out and about at work / at cafes in the city.

5. Have you found the writings useful for songwriting/poetry or any other creative media creation?
Sometimes. When I do automatic writing, it's usually long-form and it ends up sounding more Proustian and less poetic. The writing that comes to me after I've cleared my mind seems more valuable, but if I take odd phrases and edit them, they can make good lyrics or an idea for a song.

6. How do you get over 'writer's block' with automatic writing?
I think automatic writing is a method to clear writer's block!


  • LePlongeur
  • Executive Chef
  • *
  • In Tartiflette we trust

    • 2098


    • 433
    • Yesterday at 16:47:56
    • Greater Amsterdam
  • more
Re: Discussion - Automatic Writing (Free writing)
Reply #13 on: January 16, 2020, 14:35:40
What suddenly draws my attention, is that we donít seem to differentiate between writing lyrics and composing.
So both activities are automatic for me.
I donít believe for a second that it bares underlying psychological things. That crap has been dreamed up by the some clown to propagate  the misconception that women have something to do with penis envy and they are deeply handicapped by that illness.

Half of my friends are male and half female. Many of them friends for over 30 years. As none of the women are penis envy disturbed, and one senile old fart insiststhat they do, I have no difficulty at all believing whose side I am on.

It was a very clever way to earn a massive income in a time when half of the population couldnít read or write.
So itís no hocus pocus; Itís creativity.
Itís only an opinion, but itís mine @Monty Cash Music .
Kind regards, Gus



Re: Discussion - Automatic Writing (Free writing)
Reply #14 on: January 16, 2020, 14:56:53
Hey @MRose ....Welcome to The Kitchen!!!!!

Stop over at the "Me" section and tell us  more about yourself.

*now back to our regularly scheduled discussion*

 8)



xx
The Writing's on the Wall

Started by PTCruiser1801 on Songs for review

22 Replies
1542 Views
Last post February 19, 2016, 18:35:05
by PTCruiser1801
xx
[Deleted] re-writing

Started by Lane on Lyrics

2 Replies
925 Views
Last post January 21, 2019, 02:17:03
by Bill from November Sound
xx
Help writing melodies?

Started by rktho on Collaborations

11 Replies
1144 Views
Last post April 24, 2019, 15:10:45
by Leonard Scaper
smiley
Creative writing

Started by Jim on Other Arts

14 Replies
1778 Views
Last post June 21, 2017, 11:58:35
by Jim
xx
Tips for Writing Jazz?

Started by Drin on The kitchen cafť

2 Replies
718 Views
Last post April 01, 2017, 15:16:08
by Vince