• Discussion - Automatic Writing (Free writing)
  • Started by Monty Cash Music
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Re: Discussion - Automatic Writing (Free writing)
Reply #15 on: January 16, 2020, 17:57:03
hi @MRose  :thumbsup: :thumbsup: welcome to the kitchen, thanks for joining!
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Re: Discussion - Automatic Writing (Free writing)
Reply #16 on: January 16, 2020, 23:08:36
@LePlongeur   :lol:

@MRose Thanks for joining in at my invitation, now that you're here you'll have to go through the correct government channels in order to achieve ultimate catharsis via the 'Kitchener's music method'.  Only then will love drug be administered.  :praise: :lol: (ps forum admins, I love the old-school selection of emoticons here, they make me happy)

I enjoy writing Morning Pages, using a method similar to the one described in Julia Cameron's The Artist's Way; longhand, often nonsensical steam-of-consciousness writing. The goal is to clear your mind out and to set the writing aside for a few weeks before revisiting it. Some people I know burn all of the pages without ever reading them! Some of it might be great, most of it will be crap, but it's the process that's important.

I just looked her up. She is an inspiration to many. I feel that with free-writing or other forms of creative open ended non-self-judged non-expectational expression, if done regularly over a period of time, can overcome any creative blockage. (phew! what a sentence!) And also @LePlongeur 's mention of the 'well drying up', is an important part of long-term creativity, to recognize this and not to judge the self for it. 

3. When do you normally do it?
In the morning, still half-awake.

This mind when it is half awake, is such a lucid place. I feel even the action of getting a coffee first disturbs this at times. The warm cup in my hand is a trigger for my mind. Your method seems like a great way to avoid needing to find a way back to the lucid place. I so look forward to my cup of coffee though. I'll continue to write my half page of slag to get myself back there!   :D

4. Where do you normally do it?
Usually at home, sometimes out and about at work / at cafes in the city.

Nice, love to hear that you do it outside of the home in open social settings.

Also love your mention later of the word 'Proustian'. I'm now enlightened.  :) Do you also write your dreams or include your dreams in your free-writing? Or maybe this is a separate thing for you? (possible new thread discussion topic, 'Dream Diaries and Dreams'). Jesus, I'll just start my own cult or something and be done with it! haha
Find updates on my travels and music on http://peakd.com/@montycashmusic


Re: Discussion - Automatic Writing (Free writing)
Reply #17 on: January 16, 2020, 23:23:22
@Leonard Scaper @Dutchbeat Thank you! & I'll be sure to write an introduction soon.

@Monty Cash Music Yes, I often end up writing my dreams down, since they're only really fresh / memorable in the morning. Otherwise, I end up writing or recreating conversations, thoughts, abstract ideas. On a good day, even short stories! It's a lot of fun.

 ::Note:: 


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Re: Discussion - Automatic Writing (Free writing)
Reply #18 on: January 17, 2020, 00:11:09
1. What is it to you?
 - free writing for me is out of the box, unfocused - catching coincidental impressions
2. What is your method?
 - keeping pen & paper and a recorder at hand
3. When do you normally do it?
 - when- and wherever, lately while riding my bike. I then stop to jot down what popped up
4. Where do you normally do it?
 - the place seems to choose itself, now I think about it, it happens while I am on the move.
5. Have you found the writings useful for songwriting/poetry or any other creative media creation?
 - off course, but not all of the time. An idea presents itself in the half conscious (pythia) state, but then I take the basic idea and start building it in a more goal oriented way.
6. How do you get over 'writer's block' with automatic writing?""
 - by reading other people's poetry, or listening to domo's from well-known songwriters - the versions before they were turned into full productions. I love how John Lennon is fiddling around with the basic chords and opening lines of Strawberry Fields here :

Interesting topic @Monty Cash Music . Reminded me of a book I browsed through this week
Thinking fast and slow by Daniel Kahneman
In it there is a description of 2 systems
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thinking,_Fast_and_Slow#Two_systems
2 ways the brain forms thoughts
1 : System 1: Fast, automatic, frequent, emotional, stereotypic, unconscious
2 : System 2: Slow, effortful, infrequent, logical, calculating, conscious.

I guess I alternate between 1 and 2 when making music.
new guitar 4-6-2020 https://soundcloud.com/oorlab/12string-demo1 12string Cort.


Re: Discussion - Automatic Writing (Free writing)
Reply #19 on: January 17, 2020, 01:30:59
@Monty Cash Music Yes, I often end up writing my dreams down, since they're only really fresh / memorable in the morning.

I get up during the night to capture the essence of my dreams at the end of sleep cycles. But then I am engaging in some other interesting nocturnal.......meditations.....that are benefited by that practice.

My best lyrics are often there for me early in the morning as I start my day.
"The main thing is to have a gutsy approach....but use your head." Julia Child

 "In a world of robotic conformity, the only originality left in music is the imperfections" Eric Craptone

"Special thanks to Steve Gleason for making me who I am today." Leonard Scaper

Lenny's Tunes: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_music.cfm?bandID=540680

https://soundcloud.com/vincentgleason


Re: Discussion - Automatic Writing (Free writing)
Reply #20 on: January 17, 2020, 04:22:18
This is fascinating that you all are calling this free and automatic  .... but you have sort of have scheduled times when you do it.  :)
That's really cool.
I kind of wish I could do that.
I did a writing workshop once where they showed us how to do this at a specific time each day and so on. I probably could I just can't get into the flow.  :)
My songs come to me at very random times .... and it can really interfere with important parts of life such as sleeping.  :sleepy:
 
Bill
Songwriter, Keyboards, Arranger, Producer & Engineer for November Sound

November Sound is based on the Mother, Father & Son musical trio of Melissa, Bill & Will. I'm the father so anything I post will have my wife singing and/or my son playing percussion.


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Re: Discussion - Automatic Writing (Free writing)
Reply #21 on: January 17, 2020, 09:13:05
« Last Edit: January 17, 2020, 18:02:19 by LePlongeur »
I would like to explain what I meant with ‘when the well dries up’.
What I meant is: look at all the people who write music. As an average they more or less stop writing when they are 50ish. They don’t flinch when interviewed, they put on a stage smile and have great plans for future recordings blah blah blah. But in fact when you listen closely, the feeling that they’ve said it all is the overriding sentiment.

So if it happened to many people, i must take into account that it would be better to write as much as I can until I am 50.

And when that time comes, I have all the time I need to leafe through my work. And polish up the good ones.
Kind regards, Gus


Re: Discussion - Automatic Writing (Free writing)
Reply #22 on: January 17, 2020, 17:16:58
look at all the people who write music. As an average they more or less stop writing when they are 50ish. They don’t flinch when interviewed, they put on a stage smile and have great plans for future recordings blah blah blah.

Interesting observation there, Gus. Most of my Soundclick catalog was written after I turned 50.....that's somewhere around 300 tunes.

And I have great plans for future recordings (said with  my best stage smile).  ;D


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Re: Discussion - Automatic Writing (Free writing)
Reply #23 on: January 17, 2020, 17:21:46

Interesting observation there, Gus. Most of my Soundclick catalog was written after I turned 50.....that's somewhere around 300 tunes.

And I have great plans for future recordings (said with  my best stage smile).  ;D
ahahahaa thats good point @Leonard Scaper

I would need hurry hurry hurry  hurry hurry hurry if i should ride the 'well' untill  I'm  fifty.  :blackgrin:
Good to know there are exceptions also ::Bones::


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Re: Discussion - Automatic Writing (Free writing)
Reply #24 on: January 17, 2020, 18:16:05
look at all the people who write music. As an average they more or less stop writing when they are 50ish. They don’t flinch when interviewed, they put on a stage smile and have great plans for future recordings blah blah blah.

Interesting observation there, Gus. Most of my Soundclick catalog was written after I turned 50.....that's somewhere around 300 tunes.

And I have great plans for future recordings (said with  my best stage smile).  ;D

Your best stage smile is good enough for me, @Leonard Scaper . I am totally convinced.
But just for the f*, what I meant of course is for the fun of it, make a list of your 10 big heroes.
Mine includes, Carole King, John Fogerty, Johnny Cash, Leonard Bernstein (to name a few) and check what they did after 50. It’s not for nothing that you are a giant amidst heroes..Very relevant music too. Not just loudspeaker pollution.....

This doesn’t count for the lady who wrote Jolene, because she cheats. About her age I mean.
Really, I wish I could tell another theory.
Kind regards, Gus


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Re: Discussion - Automatic Writing (Free writing)
Reply #25 on: January 26, 2020, 19:35:58
« Last Edit: January 26, 2020, 19:37:52 by Monty Cash Music »
@oorlab I read that book too! It's very good! I should re-visit it again, so thanks for reminding me!

@Bill from November Sound Well this method itself is called 'free writing', although yes, we can write whenever we like in whatever way and that is free also... This is a specific way of writing whatever is on the mind without expectation or structure for a set amount of time or pages. It's not specifically for lyrics in songs. It is also a great way to clear the mind. Many times however, these words can be edited and added or made into a song... or burned... haha.

@LePlongeur I hear you and getting to 34 has taught me about energies waning. I feel however that we can find a collective 'well' and serve the purpose of that collective, this refills our supply. Often I get a lot of energy from encouraging others to be creative. For example, young people that have a spark of potential or self belief and just need a little direction. By helping others we get more energy. When my life and ways of doing things get too ego-centric my well becomes dry. I am not saying this is you, things naturally come with age. People are our panacea, even for hermits. We need people. It's a hard lesson. Personally I don't like people so much.  :lol:


Re: Discussion - Automatic Writing (Free writing)
Reply #26 on: February 09, 2020, 19:46:24
Quote
Only two days ago I received a clip of my grandson (9) dancing to the birth of cool.
Many of his classroom mates wouldn’t be caught dead doing such an abstract dance.
I think the main task (they hav many more of course) of his parents is not to teach him and his sister more, but teaching them to explore their emotions and talents.

Amen to that!  ::thumb::


Re: Discussion - Automatic Writing (Free writing)
Reply #27 on: February 09, 2020, 20:09:14
« Last Edit: February 09, 2020, 20:24:21 by 1roomstudio »
Quote
I ruled out that he would stop if he made a mistake. I.e. I told him not to study, I told him to play.

Imagine if all musicians stopped when they made a mistake!!! we would never get to the end of any piece. It’s the flow that makes the music. The correctness of any moment in the piece is relative and a matter of degree.

If you stop every time you make a mistake then all you’ve learned is “here comes the part where I stop.” You reinforce the mistake by stopping and actually get better at making the mistake and stopping as though it’s part of the piece.

Automatic writing is writing without stopping...  with music, stopping the flow stops the music, and that is the worst possible mistake. With writing you can stop and no one notices... but by stopping the flow you have lost, forever, what would have come next....

See that... I just stopped 😎

If you want to smooth out a rough spot in a piece then you START! with that spot, play through it and keep repeating until you get it right.... then it’s OK to stop.

When teaching beginners I always insist that they learn the rhythm and the groove first...then the notes will more or less take care of themselves. I demonstrate this by tapping out the rhythm to Mary had a Little Lamb... with no notes... it’s still recognizable. If you play the notes in the correct order, but without the correct rhythm... it’s not recognizable... even though you know it’s the notes to Mary had a Little Lamb.


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Re: Discussion - Automatic Writing (Free writing)
Reply #28 on: February 16, 2020, 11:31:32
For me, my system is I don't have a system. I can go from being very well ordered to chaotic and I like it this way.

For me, freedom is all about allowing yourself to think how you want to. You can either use logic, structure, the wisdom of experience, or you can be abstract and just go with the flow.

So song-writing for me,  be they instrumental or with words attached, is a random sort of activity that taps you on the shoulder or doesn't. I don't feel comped to write or make music, but I love the act of singing (choir etc) so I'm always listening and learning. I was classed as an 'ideas man' at work, (scientific research), but put me in a room and try and force me to come up with ideas and I would often fail.

Ideas creep up on me when I'm not looking, washing the dishes, cutting the grass. The trick is to capture them some way, to ruminate on down the road if you are busy, or just do it in a flurry of notes or words if you can spare the time.

Perfection is another one of those things that depends upon a listeners point of view. If a performance is technically correct, some people might call it cold and lacking emotion, others would say it's the best thing they have ever heard. If it's less than perfect, somebody might call it rubbish, whilst another would say it has soul and is authentic. The most interesting thing is a viewpoint can change to some degree depending upon your emotional and physical state. This might also happen down the years which is why you can't listen to some music any more. Your viewpoint has changed, the music hasn't.




 




 
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Re: Discussion - Automatic Writing (Free writing)
Reply #29 on: February 16, 2020, 15:31:38
@1roomstudio

This principle of flow is to me the point of automatic writing, freeform expression and improvisation. By whatever means we come by it, by following our intuition, it doesn't matter. Automatic writing like other things is a tool to find that flow, to tap into a weak or subtle signal and to make it stronger with focus. Good point to bring up! It's great we are working from the same canvas.

@MrBouzouki

It's great to keep recordings online I find, like a catalogue, even if only for the self. So as to guage where we are going. I feel the culture of perfectionism and insecurity with expression because it's not up to standard can inhibit us.

I despise an industry that expects you to walk out of a box perfect.

It's great to see what we did 10 years ago, see how real our enthusiasm was for our material then and what merit it has by the you of today.

If anything music is a tool for self discovery. We express, we're inspired, we write and we sing and then we put it on the shelf. Then later we laugh at ourselves and how obsessed we were with something, or how amazing we thought we were.

The narcissistic culture has led us down the dark path of the self 'chosen' auto-elite.

I feel it's better to put something out there, even if it's not finished or up to our high unrealistic standards because the waves of the ether change and tomorrow we'll be inspired by something else.

We are channels of the greater collective in this sense, only once we have disposed of our narcissism.



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