• How do chef's create their recipes?
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How do chef's create their recipes?
on: January 25, 2014, 18:50:23
Or, how do you guys write your songs?  What inspires you?   Dutchbeat asked me, in another thread, "but tell, me do you make these things almost right away with the lyrics / poem in front of you??"

And the answer is, generally, yes.  I sit at the piano and two events must occur:  I must have well written lyrics in front of me (or poetry); and then I must be able to find the right chord sequence to kick the song off.  If both events occur, the melody just rolls out.  If no melody comes after 10-15 minutes, I go away and leave it for a day or two.

That's it.  Now, I pose the question to my fellow chef's:  How do you create your recipes?



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Re: How do chef's create their recipes?
Reply #1 on: January 25, 2014, 19:04:43
Thats interesting.I always need the first two chords for the melody first.Then I write the further melody and start to sing.Almost everything till some words fits to the melody.After this everything find the right place and I can start the melody for the chorus.
Alexander


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Re: How do chef's create their recipes?
Reply #2 on: January 25, 2014, 19:16:16
Hi, i recognize that thing that if not really happens in the first 15 minutes, it is not going to happen

nothing real good anyway...

i may continue, with that i aid of a truckload of samples and machinery...and even  have fun with that

but that hardly ever led to a song i can or want to remember later on  ;D ;D ;D...

that weird thing they call inspiration   ::) :P :-[ needs to be their at first and it cannot be faked or forced to be there, it is there or it insn't
me, myself, and Pie


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Re: How do chef's create their recipes?
Reply #3 on: January 25, 2014, 19:48:18
I start with a vibe. Usually gloomy :) Then start trying to tune in to it - sometimes on keys, sometimes on guitar, sometimes just moaning and groaning a vocal melody. Once i have something interesting i start focusing on that and try to build an idea of the soundscape i plan to use. Then it's just a case of throwing stuff around till it comes together. It's rare i have a plan - usually it appears about 3/4 of the way through when i start reworking stuff. Music theory never consciously enters my head (what little i know) - i just follow my ears and fingers.

All very random.


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Re: How do chef's create their recipes?
Reply #4 on: January 25, 2014, 19:58:17
cool topic,
it hink
how you write a song, Digger is so totally different

i am thinking about that...in what time span do you make a song then......is what you are describing going on in hours / a day?

or is it a much longer process, it sounds like a longer process  ??? ??? ???




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Re: How do chef's create their recipes?
Reply #5 on: January 25, 2014, 21:13:37
I was going to talk about music theory, which of course plays a part whether you acknowledge that or not but I think I'll try to simplify what I do.  There are two different approaches for me: a song might start with an emotion. Often a strong emotion and I then look for an appropriate chord sequence to add an emotional melody to.  The choice of notes for the melody is in my opinion, something that can't be taught.  You've simply got to call upon all of your life experiences, both the fantastic moments and worst, most painful of your experiences and memories.  It might sound pretentious but when you think of melody like that, it really does have the ability to speak about exactly what you have lived through. This is something that I instinctively do in my productions - I feel the emotion of what I am playing regardless of the instrument, apart from drums.  The marriage of words to the vocal melody should be seamless - I try to write something that I believe I can't improve. To my mind, whatever I write is as good as I can possibly make it  and I'm never disappointed with my work other than not having the range to hit certain notes that I instinctively hear in my head - I don't want to sounds arrogant here but surely that's got to be your goal as a songwriter!  That all applies for the songs that I write from personal experience.  If I write something about for example a fictional story about a Hollywood leading man as I did in a song called 'leading Man' which Dutchbeat made a wonderful video for, it's exactly the same as above, call upon all of your emotion and experiences to bring a part of you to that song.  Obviously I've never been a Hollywood leading Man but there is always an angle to project a part of you into that song - something that I firmly believe in! There are many tricks and skills that you pick up along the way but that is the essence of how I write!  :)


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Re: How do chef's create their recipes?
Reply #6 on: January 25, 2014, 22:28:01
« Last Edit: January 25, 2014, 22:30:11 by digger72 »
I guess I spend 3 or 4 days recording - probably about 10 - 12 hours in total. Then mixing, etc can take double this. Usually testing it on various devices and trying to get it sound ok on all of them - which can be a pain in the butt. My songs tend to be simple though, so i guess they are easier to put together. My theory has always been simple things put together well (or as well as i can make them.)
E.g. the new song I'm working on started with just a song title, which conjured a general sound i was after. I started with a bass groove and drums. Sang some random stuff over it to try and get a melody. Then i started working on the proper lyrics. Got these to about 90%. Then started adding in some guitars around this. Added some harmonies. Sent it to Katja, who seems to like it, so I wrote her a part to sing. Fingers crossed it should turn out as some kind of Alt Pop/reggae thing. This came together pretty quick. 3 or 4 hours recording instruments. A day spent listening to my mumblings whilst driving helped me get the lyrics. Then a few hours mixing. Hoping to have it as a Valentine's Day song.

As I say, theory isn't my thing; i don't think, oh this will resolve to this or that, or this or that scale will play over this progression. I just play what i hear in my head. Sometimes it's just a case of scratching around for whatever it is I'm after. My skills as a musician are strictly beginner. I just like writing lyrics and melodies really.

I agree with Wicked - it's about having empathy with that which you are writing/singing about. I try to take on the persona of the person who is the focus of my song. Try to make it sound honest, i guess.


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Re: How do chef's create their recipes?
Reply #7 on: January 25, 2014, 22:39:11
just to be sure...but you all know this  ;D ;D ;D

but please don't tell anyone 8)

if anyone is a beginner, it must be me, Dutchbeat

i do evrything by ear, and take my time to be honest

but, i did notice that thing, when you start songcooking
in 15 minutes you know, whether you have the right state

mood.....to make a new song


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Re: How do chef's create their recipes?
Reply #8 on: January 25, 2014, 23:30:37
"I was going to talk about music theory, which of course plays a part whether you acknowledge that or not"... Paul has a great point here.  To those that read music, finding the right chords is vital and I have a secret........  I have a secret book.....

It's called Piano Chords by Jake Jackson and (ostensibly designed for jazz pianists) it lists every single chord progression from a B Major to a E minor 13th.   It's awesome, and like all good recipes, some foods go together very well (like some chords) and some foods simply dont' (like some dis-chords).   

That's my cheat outed !

But, as Paul also said, the emotion element is uncontrovertible.  Without an element of emotion, surely there can't be a song ?


Re: How do chef's create their recipes?
Reply #9 on: January 26, 2014, 01:24:15
Interesting thread..

I tried melody first but I found that the quality of the lyric suffered. I now always write lyrics first, like poetry, sometimes a tune will emerge as I read it back to myself but mostly the melody comes when I get time to sit with the guitar. I generally have lots of 'writing' time (travelling journeys etc) but very little composition and recording time, so this method works for me. I can carefully plan my lyrics, sometimes sparked by an everyday event, and fine tune them before I sit to compose a melody.

I agree about the 15 min thing, if it isn't working into somethkng usable by then, I try a different set of pre-written lyrics.


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Re: How do chef's create their recipes?
Reply #10 on: January 26, 2014, 17:36:59
I was going to talk about music theory, which of course plays a part whether you acknowledge that or not but I think I'll try to simplify what I do.  There are two different approaches for me: a song might start with an emotion. Often a strong emotion and I then look for an appropriate chord sequence to add an emotional melody to.  The choice of notes for the melody is in my opinion, something that can't be taught.  You've simply got to call upon all of your life experiences, both the fantastic moments and worst, most painful of your experiences and memories.  It might sound pretentious but when you think of melody like that, it really does have the ability to speak about exactly what you have lived through. This is something that I instinctively do in my productions - I feel the emotion of what I am playing regardless of the instrument, apart from drums.  The marriage of words to the vocal melody should be seamless - I try to write something that I believe I can't improve. To my mind, whatever I write is as good as I can possibly make it  and I'm never disappointed with my work other than not having the range to hit certain notes that I instinctively hear in my head - I don't want to sounds arrogant here but surely that's got to be your goal as a songwriter!  That all applies for the songs that I write from personal experience.  If I write something about for example a fictional story about a Hollywood leading man as I did in a song called 'leading Man' which Dutchbeat made a wonderful video for, it's exactly the same as above, call upon all of your emotion and experiences to bring a part of you to that song.  Obviously I've never been a Hollywood leading Man but there is always an angle to project a part of you into that song - something that I firmly believe in! There are many tricks and skills that you pick up along the way but that is the essence of how I write!  :)
That's a fantastic approach to songwriting, Paul, exactly how it should be!
There are good songs, and then there are those songs that get under your skin and make you feel exactly like the artist did when they wrote the song - or at least your interpretation of that feeling. And those are the ones that really stick with you!

For me it's all very random, I've never sat down with the intent to write a song now.
Every now and then when I'm playing around with an instrument I suddenly stumble across something that I like, that could be a guitar riff, or a couple of chords on the piano, or even something I've just programmed on my drum plugin. Then I think, this could go well with a certain melody on another instrument, and start playing around with that... etc.
The writing and arranging parts are kind of the same for my songwriting process. Unfortunately this means that I usually 'write' in the DAW, and am rather useless when not around my computer.

Hi, i recognize that thing that if not really happens in the first 15 minutes, it is not going to happen

nothing real good anyway...

i may continue, with that i aid of a truckload of samples and machinery...and even  have fun with that
I do that as well, there are too many unfinished projects on my computer that I'm sure will never go anywhere, but occasionally I revisit them and play around with some settings and sounds just for the fun of it


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Re: How do chef's create their recipes?
Reply #11 on: January 27, 2014, 07:01:00
I also agree about the 15 min thing but I have had ideas in memory or a few notes on a piece of paper which where used a few month later in a different new song. ;)