• Music of the World
  • Started by Bill from November Sound
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Music of the World
on: December 13, 2018, 03:22:39
So here at the kitchen we are a worldwide forum.  Here as a New England guy I get kind of bored with and disheartened about local music, local radio, etc.

American Popular music kind of dominates everything ... more than that people around here ( at least people I know) get stuck in their favorites genres i.e.  I only listen to: 80's music, classic rock, 70's music, modern country, etc.   :bonk:
... the concept of listening to music from other parts of the world is so foreign to many.

Then again we have this thing called "world music". I think for us anything that is not American or British pop/rock constitutes World music. Maybe?

My parents were ( and still are ) very interested in social dancing so my weekends always had that happy music sung in Ukrainian .... yeah polka.  :)  ::)  never understood a word of it but I always listened to songs in Ukrainian. Nothing like the super cool music that our friend @shatiks makes. Well, to me, there is something familiar and powerful about his voice and his language.

I got my start in music with the Puerto Rican musicians in the nearby city. I started playing gigs in the latin night clubs and the rest is history. Most people I meet really have no concept of what this music is like and can't relate to this at all. In USA most people can almost speak one language ....   ;) Ask them to listen to music in Spanish? .... probably won't work.

There are always local groups that perform Celtic music. It looks like @Timothy Smith has Celtic Starise as his production name. @MrBouzouki creates all kinds of music that I'd consider Celtic. But I want to ask @Zedd and @Jambrains  .... is there really Celtic music over there or is that just some kind of American name for a genre?

Then contemporary art music ( classical) like @OscoBosco writes or avant garde like @eric craptone makes can take listeners off the beaten path ... which I believe is a good thing.


So I ask my friends around the world - do you have "world music"? What is it for you? Beyond your songwriting does anyone have musical experiences with traditional music of your culture? Maybe you do something that Americans would call world music? 



 
Bill
Songwriter, Keyboards, Arranger, Producer & Engineer for November Sound

November Sound is based on the Mother, Father & Son musical trio of Melissa, Bill & Will. I'm the father so anything I post will have my wife singing and/or my son playing percussion.


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Re: Music of the World
Reply #1 on: December 13, 2018, 14:56:14
Very interesting subject....love to hear from all the Kitcheners that you called out to @Bill from November Sound

I'm only a few hundred miles from you in this wide world of ours and my musical influences have been pretty much limited to the culture around me here in the States....that is, until I got here at The Kitchen.

I hear a lot of very personalized styles here at The Kitchen. Are WE becoming......world music?
"The main thing is to have a gutsy approach....but use your head." Julia Child

 "In a world of robotic conformity, the only originality left in music is the imperfections" Eric Craptone

"Special thanks to Steve Gleason for making me who I am today." Leonard Scaper

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Re: Music of the World
Reply #2 on: December 13, 2018, 16:01:09

I always considered world music to be  anything outside of the main genre like pop, rock, blues, jazz and country. Admittedly some of the  selections they give you to choose from on Soundcloud don't always fit. It would seem that genre have been confused for a long time. Sometimes for me, only the the title "world music" fits.

 I play in Irish folk music sessions as they are called. None of the people I play with there  play "celtic" music. Irish music is largely jigs, reels and polkas. They refer to it as Irish/Scottish folk music. Played in bars mostly as lively dance music. Usually much faster than the kind of thing Enya did  that many see as celtic. The traveling show "Celtic Woman" BTW borrows music from many persuasions.

 I have heard some Irish fiddlers argue there is no such thing as "celtic" music. To them, Irish music is the stuff I already mentioned. In their thinking this was some kind of a record company made up thing lol. They have a point because what I do isn't what they do. I personally think Celtic music has a medieval flavor and was probably close to the kind of thing you might have heard  in more simplicity back before most Irish folk music came out. In my thinking it was before Irish folk music. I took a liking to some of that music and have tried to make music like it at times.  The  Irish Bouzouki came directly from  Greece and was modified by an Irish luthier to be a flat back instrument with 4 pairs of two strings like a mandolin instead of  the Greek version with a different tuning and only three courses. Not to be confused with  long scale mandolins, however they are similar. The Irish folk musicians also borrowed the banjo which really came from Africa and ended up in the deep south US. So Irish musicians really can't claim to be original either. Celtic seems to have developed into a real genre with  music that  takes us back to a time when there were kings and queens, fairies, trolls and the like. Almost a storybook in music IMHO.  The true Celts were very into the black arts until missionaries came over to Ireland . Like many of the ancient religions they sacrificed humans. I want to make it clear I am NOT into any of that.

I am originally from the deep south in the US, so my memories are of hearing country music, southern gospel music and later on southern rock and blues. I don't associate my music taste with my cultural background at all. It's funny how I hear of Russians, Ukranians and Germans who all love country music. One girl I know In Norway who writes dreamy  cinematic video game kinds of things really loves Joe Bonamassa.

I should probably change my Name from Celtic Starise because  It's hard for me to keep it all separate. I play so many different things. As a church musician I play all of that music, then I play anything I want to play in the studio which can literally be anything.

I can strongly relate to you Bill. I grow tired of the same old stuff on the radio.  This isn't just a New England thing. It seems to be all over the USA. I live in  Eastern Pa. Not any different here concerning what goes over the air waves.

Oh, and I write more than most people ever want to read  :D


Re: Music of the World
Reply #3 on: December 13, 2018, 20:28:02
Hey @Bill from November Sound - I’ve never really got ‘World Music’ but re Celtic music, it’s not a term we use in Ireland at all.


We have a very vibrant Irish music scene and refer it as ‘traditional’, ‘traditional Irish’ or simply ‘trad’. Kids all over the country learn and play so there are always new bands and musicians coming on stream as well as established acts. Personally I love it... at its best it is probably the most emotional I get listening to music. It can be truly beautiful. Although I do have an aversion to bad, lifeless trad. It is generally instrumental but can be sung too.


We do have Folk / Irish folk too, which is a little different, sung and I guess both are often combined.


K


Re: Music of the World
Reply #4 on: December 16, 2018, 23:52:30
Wow @Zedd  … that is really cool and I kind of figured as much. Do you pronounce "Trad" like the word "tack" or like "trod"  …. you know American English has a lot of "A" sounds.  :) 
Melissa loved Ireland so much. She wants to go visit there again.

 
Quote
Celtic seems to have developed into a real genre with  music that  takes us back to a time when there were kings and queens, fairies, trolls and the like.
Ya know @Timothy Smith  there are still a lot of trolls around but @Dutchbeat and @Mar T. do their best to keep them out of this forum  :lol:

I was at a Christmas party the other night and my niece has a boyfriend from Poland … my parents start having Alexa play different polkas sung in Polish. He say's, "You know, polka is not actually Polish music."  I have friends from Finland and they have "polka" as well. The hardest thing about playing the Finnish music is reading the title.  :D He'd call a tune and I'd stand there in complete confusion.  ::)

I'm wondering if @LePlongeur or @oorlab or someone could point me in the direction of traditional music from their country. It was really cool when @Mar T. , @Goatrelated and company did the "Zoals Liefde" song in Dutch …. but that wouldn't be like traditional sounds, really … right?
I'm noticing that most people on SoundCloud and YouTube from that area create most of their songs in English.


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Re: Music of the World
Reply #5 on: December 17, 2018, 00:21:52
So I ask my friends around the world - do you have "world music"? What is it for you? Beyond your songwriting does anyone have musical experiences with traditional music of your culture? Maybe you do something that Americans would call world music?

The first ''traditional'  music I thought of, would be classical music, choir singing, with a director and sheet music.
In churches most of the time.
At least that is what the tradition in the Netherlands would be. We have a long 'Bach-tradition'.
In popular music there is not really a Dutch tradition. May be in Amsterdam you have sea-ballads, shanties. But in the Netherlands there is not a very strong music tradition - not like painting or football.
In Frisia - some call it a province of the Netherlands, others would like to make it into a separate country but they have thir own language - there is a strong musical tradition - but very local.
recommending https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_Music_Works "How music works", book by David Byrne.


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Re: Music of the World
Reply #6 on: December 17, 2018, 11:25:17
It's a matter of what you label traditional. @Bill from November Sound
If music, centred around (lyrics) topics and musical traditions of 50/60 years ago is traditional enough, I'll post one of my Dutch songs.

If you are looking for things that are centuries old, I'll agree with @oorlab. Our traditions are there, very much so, but rather vague.
We've got plenty songs that refer to the perils of the sea, and that are about seasonal things for children.
Sint Jan (longest day)
SInt Maarten (11 november)
Sinterklaas (5 december)
for instance.

Apart from this there's a dieing (???petering out???) tradition that is about songs, dedicated to seasons.
Spring songs
Summer songs
Autumn songs
but winter songs are dominant.

In Paradiso Amsterdam, there are the choir days traditionally. For over 30 years I guess.
Every choir has 18 minutes to sing (including going off stage and a new choir going on and prepairing) three choirs per hour for 2 days on 3 podia at a time. There are litterally thousands of choirs in NL singing some kind of tradition. Be it religious or shanties, you name it.

But work songs? No, we never worked, so we never had the use for them.

My kind of traditional music (the music I write on an every day basis) would be called 'not decent enough' in Spain and among Anglo Saxons I guess.

Danny Lane (Moody Blues) sang:
I hold her handkerchief
and smell her sweet perfume

Which I would label as kinky. If a guy, say 20 years old, gets aroused by a handkerchief, there's something wrong with him and he needs medical aid.
I tried to give a description of the compass my lyrics are sailing on. Much more focused on the things you and I as a 20 year old would get exited about.
Now, is this a subtle way to explain it? I really did my best.

Interesting post, Bill.
I like questions that get me thinking.
We're so small, all music is world music, from NL point of view. That is feeling rich. 2 hours in a decent car will get me in French or German traditions that are alien to us. At least the French lyrics I can understand. The Zydeco is straight from the German Polka's, so indulge...
Kind regards, Gus


Re: Music of the World
Reply #7 on: December 17, 2018, 15:36:18
Hey @Bill from November Sound - I’ve never really got ‘World Music’ but re Celtic music, it’s not a term we use in Ireland at all.


We have a very vibrant Irish music scene and refer it as ‘traditional’, ‘traditional Irish’ or simply ‘trad’.

We do have Folk / Irish folk too, which is a little different, sung and I guess both are often combined.


K

Interesting thread and  thoughts.

I used the term "folk" when describing Irish music because this is the term several of my online UK friends have adopted as an overall description of that music. I was trying to relate to their reference. In reality  we mostly call it Irish Traditional here in the US too and that usually includes what they call  "folk" :)  Something like " Down By The Sally Gardens" being folk and songs like , "The Otter's Holt" or "Dusty Windowsills" being jigs. Polkas that come to mind are "69th Street", "Lord Mayo" and Reels like,  " The Maid Behind The Bar", "The Wind That Shakes The Barley". It seems there really are four classifications of music under "Irish Trad."

All interesting things to hear about the Danish music. I would love to hear some of this Danish traditional music!


Re: Music of the World
Reply #8 on: December 17, 2018, 20:47:48
I tell my 14 year old German niece, who sings beautifully and in the city choir, that she could probably have a good career in music singing  Schlager and Volksmusik.
She gives me the look that only a teenage girl can give a geezer who is clearly out of his mind.   


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Re: Music of the World
Reply #9 on: December 18, 2018, 22:24:45
But I want to ask @Zedd and @Jambrains  .... is there really Celtic music over there or is that just some kind of American name for a genre?
Well, I'm from Sweden so I would not be able to spot Celtic music if it jumped up and bit my arse  ;D ;D ;D
Over here this the old folk/trad music was mainly for dancing, here is a great example slightly modernized
Let man's petty nations tear themselves apart
My land's only borders lie around my heart


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Re: Music of the World
Reply #10 on: December 19, 2018, 17:34:40
I really enjoyed that video @Jambrains . Thanks for posting it.  :)


Re: Music of the World
Reply #11 on: December 19, 2018, 19:30:44
But I want to ask @Zedd and @Jambrains  .... is there really Celtic music over there or is that just some kind of American name for a genre?
Well, I'm from Sweden so I would not be able to spot Celtic music if it jumped up and bit my arse  ;D ;D ;D
Over here this the old folk/trad music was mainly for dancing, here is a great example slightly modernized



Hey @Jambrains that’s really nice - not a million miles away from Irish trad although gentler. We don’t have a ‘no shoes’ rule though :-)...


@Bill from November Sound - we pronounce ‘trad’ like ‘sad’. But I’m guessing we don’t pronounce either of those words like you do  ;D  - our pronunciation of ‘a’ is very flat...


K





Re: Music of the World
Reply #12 on: December 21, 2018, 18:06:51
@Jambrains , Thanks for sharing this example. I had thoughts similar to Zedd here.  Great musicians and music!


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Re: Music of the World
Reply #13 on: December 22, 2018, 22:54:42
An interesting topic I've somehow missed.

My understanding from various things I've read is that there was never a 'Celtic' race as such, more a word to describe early migrating tribes with similar cultural or linguistic roots.  In fact I just found this a  quote as one meaning of the word Celtic ...

Quote
A branch of the Indo-European languages that was spread widely over western and central Europe in the pre-Christian era.

So for me, Celtic music is probably tied up with dance, celebration, commiseration, festivals , seasonal changes, food production, war, religion, in other words all the stuff that ancient races would do.

Following the mythological revival after Tolkien in the 60's, some people wanted to 'reconnect' with more ancient times, living as they did in a modern world, so a whole genre of books, films and music appeared to support this need. The term 'New Age' and 'Celtic' probably describes this search for a reconnection to an idealised simpler, more mystical time.

Musically, just like the Irish tradition,  it's all about dance or stories, the rhythms are a connection into the pulse of a people, real or imagined.

So by extension, I believe World music came out of people being feed up with 4/4 , 3/4, and after the more complex time signatures of jazz were abandoned by the masses, so the pulse of traditional Africa and other countries and continents, was the new music drug for a while. Again, what's 'trad' to one set of people, is 'world' to somebody who has never tapped their foot to that particular beat. It's alien, foreign to their ears at first.

I wonder how much of music is tribal reinforcement, a sense of belonging in an uncertain world.  Think of some of  the UK movements like Mods, Rockers, Punk etc. that had their own sound as the backdrop to being part of cultural change tied perhaps to adolescence. There are equivalents in other countries no doubt.

So I guess there is no simple answer to @Bill from November Sound 's initial post but I do feel the Kitchen is a 'World Music' hub of sorts, @Leonard Scaper, which is why I love it here.

A facinating thread this one.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

P.S. Yes, I know @Timothy Smith  that little 'Osman' is probably playing a Balalaika, not a Bouzouki as we know them, (looking at it's shape) but hey, it's just an emoticon and it works for me ;-) I believe it was Johnny Moynihan of Sweeney's Men who was credited with the Bouzouki introduction to Ireland, like Finbar Furey was for the low whistle.  Those new timbres of these instruments and modal tuning of the Bouzouki fitted with the established Irish trad instruments. So I guess some elements of traditional playing are more open to change than others. I'm sure @Zedd will have a view on this.

 ::OSMAN:: ::OSMAN:: ::OSMAN::





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Re: Music of the World
Reply #14 on: December 26, 2018, 01:33:34
Couldn't have said it better.

New Age is a religion and a music style. I sometimes listen to the second one. I have no connection to the first.