• Music Theory Question
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Music Theory Question
on: April 25, 2021, 14:11:36
Hi,

After many years of experimenting with songwriting without proper music theory background, I'm finally going to music theory lessons. I'm currently working out my homework, one of the exercises involves finding the key of the extract shown.

Can anyone please help me on how to solve question c, please? (See attachment)

Thanks!
Rachel
Rachel  ::Rachel::
https://.com/rachel_debattista


Re: Music Theory Question
Reply #1 on: April 25, 2021, 14:44:27
Hi @Rachel_D  .... F# minor

There is an error in the second to last measure where it should be labeled as a G# .... but no # is written.

But .... what are your questions about it?
Bill
Songwriter, Keyboards, Arranger, Producer & Engineer for November Sound

Not currently posting music here but we're easy to find if you care to listen. November Sound will happily listen, follow, like, subscribe and repost for people who do the same. We get a lot of spam so let us know you're from the kitchen!


Re: Music Theory Question
Reply #2 on: April 25, 2021, 14:46:31
« Last Edit: April 25, 2021, 15:03:29 by Bill from November Sound »
Oh @Rachel_D  ... I think maybe you missed that it was written in the bass clef?

... no maybe you didn't.

The C#, D#, E# going up to the F# at the end indicates the ascending firm of the melodic minor.

( that G natural is a weird anomally there ..... if it was meant to be then it indicates a quick diversion into phrygian mode ... likely part of a Neapolitan right before the Dominant...)


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Re: Music Theory Question
Reply #3 on: May 01, 2021, 22:23:23
@Rachel_D  - what did your teacher say? Bill's got it right I guess, with F#m. Looking at the Circle of fifths https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circle_of_fifths it could also be A major? :sleepy:


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Re: Music Theory Question
Reply #4 on: May 02, 2021, 08:49:45
Hi @Bill from November Sound and @oorlab ,

Thanks for your replies :D I got a bit confused because there’s
C#, F#, G#, D# and also E# in the piece

...so first I listed the keys which include some or all of those accidentals:
E major and C#minor both have cfgd# in key the signature, however, that does not explain the e#

Then there is f#minor
Which includes fcg# while e# is the 7th and d# is the 6th. But then I got confused because for both 6th and 7th to be sharpened it needs to be a melodic minor. And the 6th and 7th are only sharpened when ascending in melodic minor scale. And if that is the case, how can you conclude that the given piece is ascending and not descending to confirm the answer?


Rachel


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Re: Music Theory Question
Reply #5 on: May 02, 2021, 09:36:14
@Rachel_D  - I will try to play the piece. In my choir I was told by our conductor that you have to first look at the opening and end note . Those are the strongest witnesses for the key.  A certain piece most of the times is both descending and ascending (not at the same time of course). @Pleudoniem  - maybe R can shed some light?


Re: Music Theory Question
Reply #6 on: May 02, 2021, 13:31:49
Hi @Bill from November Sound and @oorlab ,

Thanks for your replies :D I got a bit confused because there’s
C#, F#, G#, D# and also E# in the piece

...so first I listed the keys which include some or all of those accidentals:
E major and C#minor both have cfgd# in key the signature, however, that does not explain the e#

Then there is f#minor
Which includes fcg# while e# is the 7th and d# is the 6th. But then I got confused because for both 6th and 7th to be sharpened it needs to be a melodic minor. And the 6th and 7th are only sharpened when ascending in melodic minor scale. And if that is the case, how can you conclude that the given piece is ascending and not descending to confirm the answer?


Rachel

It is ascending @Rachel_D simply because the melody goes up. ( am I misunderstanding the question?)
The E# tonicizes the F#


Re: Music Theory Question
Reply #7 on: May 02, 2021, 13:40:12
Maybe you're "overthinking" this one @Rachel_D ?   :)
It ascends to an F# at the end (c# d# e# f# ) and there are A naturals early on. Therefore it is F# minor.
The only odd note is the G natural

The melodic minor is a single scale
Up: f# g# a b c# d# e# f#
Down: f# e d c# b a g# f#

Anyway ... I love music theory questions! Post some more.  :D


Re: Music Theory Question
Reply #8 on: May 02, 2021, 15:00:50
I'd say that the lead tone is the one that the rhythm builds on from, not necessarily the first or the last note in a sequence. The rhythm is often built from the first note though, so it is likely that is none the less the case.

I could ask Regina (as @oorlab suggests), she is very good with this type of questions. @Rachel_D I am not exactly sure what your question is though, I can't seem to find it in in your attachment.

The oddity isn't so odd, necessarily. What you see a lot in (for instance) blues and gypsy scales is that they add extra notes to the scales, which add colour to a genre. It depends a bit on the genre where that note could be. To illustrate this: I have a chord finder for guitar here, and it features more than 150 names for different scales. Most vary from one another by only one note, albeit in specific places for each individual tonic. I am not sure what odd is.
Pleudoniem: composer; bass guitarist; guitarist; singer; drummer; tap-guitarist - o, and yes... erm- a bit of keys. Open for collabs.
SoundCloud Page: https://soundcloud.com/pleudoniem


Re: Music Theory Question
Reply #9 on: May 02, 2021, 15:17:12
@Pleudoniem @oorlab  ... anyone else who's following this topic   ;)

@Rachel_D  is studying what appears to be college level Tonal Harmony 1 . These are hard and fast rules.  They are not really up for interpretation or subjective analysis like normal songwriter stuff.

The answer is F# minor. *
Tonal Harmony 1 doesn't use gypsy scales, etc. ... or at least not purposefully. The neapolitan chord is indeed a part of Tonal Harmony 1.


Songwriters break the rules all the time whether they know it or not.  :)   



* Maybe my explanation isn't the best or I'm not answering the right question but this melody is in F# minor according to the rules by which the student is required to follow.


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Re: Music Theory Question
Reply #10 on: May 02, 2021, 18:53:52
@Bill from November Sound  - F#minor is correct - but doesn'the Circle of Fifth tell us, that therefor A major could also be right?
Agreed, musc theory is cool - more riddles please!


Re: Music Theory Question
Reply #11 on: May 02, 2021, 20:20:40
@Bill from November Sound  - F#minor is correct - but doesn'the Circle of Fifth tell us, that therefor A major could also be right?
Agreed, musc theory is cool - more riddles please!

It shares the same key signature as its relative major - A Major

But that particular melody is in F#minor because of the E# leading tone. Even more so because of the ascension through C# D# E#
It is an ascending melody .... @oorlab ..... thus using the ascending form of the melodic minor scale.
 :)



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