• My OWN essay #1 - my answer to Sergei Starostin a.o.
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« Last Edit: November 26, 2020, 08:08:17 by LePlongeur »
In the Kitchen cafť, @MrBouzouki posted a thread which I like very much.
The link: https://www.songwriter-forum-kitchen.com/forum/seo/3/so-why-do-you-use-and-how-do-you-interact-with-the-kitchen/6649/

@oorlab, in turn, posted Essay #1 by Sergei Starostin. What the connection is with MrB.ís thread is a bit of mystery to me, but even things I disagree with I read. In this case I read it twice, and itís 51 pages.

Instead of trying to contradict Sergeiís examples, I have tried to rewrite his Essay and thereby shine a different light on the matter.
With some exaggeration, first there was nothing, then there were the Beatles and now that formula has lost its meaning. Sergeiís take on things.

Revolution vs evolution
Thereís more evolution than revolution in general. And in the development of music too.
My mum listened to the tango. This was simply noise according to my grandfather. Harry Belafonte made the calypso popular. My father played gypsy jazz. Even more noise!

Gear/tools
My other grandfather was schrijnwerker, a notch above the carpenter.
If I compare his block plane with mine, there are huge differences. Mine has depth adjustment systems, tilt adjustment and a hardened blade.
And I am an amateur. Different gear makes different results possible.

Changing from violin to accordion made louder music possible. From Cajun to Zydeco (I know I cut a corner or two).
The electric violin made Fairport Convention stand out. In 1970, Holland Pop Festival, 5 acts were billed with an electric violin.

A DJ makes music, but uses different gear/tools. It may or may not be your cup of tea, but to dismiss that kind of music without even thinking seems ridiculous to me.

Race or color
The original #1ís 51 pages are almost entirely about whiteys making music.
Very little about mixing (came naturally in jazz) like the Electric Flag.
Colored was not very present. Soul, Bollywood, Warda Al Jazeera for instance. Miriam Makeba.
Curtis Mayfield? Plus we had the watered down sort of course:  Pat Boone, Bill Haley, UB 40, to name a few.

Technical vs special
We seem to fancy myths. Practice till your fingers bleed and you will be a good musician.
Crap of course. The Beatles were special, but George was no John McLaughlin. So the amount of notes per second is interesting for only a limited public.

Only the things we like doing very much will bring you much joy and may even be successful.
And I would choose/chose fun over practice any time.

Singing and focus
I hear a lot hesitant singing. If you are afraid of the microphone, shout at it now and then and notice, it doesnít shout back.
Singing is done with bravado, lots of breath and focus.
Please listen to Tin soldier by The Small Faces. Not so fancy as...., not half as ground breaking as...., but simply one of the most beautiful songs of the sixties. And a love song too. Stevie Marriott wrote the song for his wife. He already had her out of her knickers! And itís convincing as hell.

Luck/succes
Please pray that luck and succes will happen later in your career.
Look at A whiter shade of pale and look at Procol Harum struggling to follow the success of their first born up with a credible next song. A very fine band. Lack of success can destroy you, succes at the wrong moment too.

Grace Slick and Sandy Denny both wrote their two best songs before entering the line up of Jefferson Airplane and Fairport Convention. And never matched the beauty of their first two again.

University vs tunnel vision
Youíve successfully slept your way through university, when all of a sudden common sense is the way to go.

Having a good time vs tunnel vision
The light at the end of the tunnel might as well be an idiot with a power torch.

Youíve already noticed, the last two are written to make sure we all know that we cannot make reality. There are too many factors that you canít lay your fingers on.

But to explain the development (or the lack thereof) of music over the past 70 by bombarding white male groups at each other is a strange perspective if you ask me.

In short, I think what we need is insight in:
Revolution vs evolution
Gear/tools and how to use them
Is the music we want to listen to (to make) race based
Technical prowess vs special
Practice vs fun
Singing with breath and focus
Pure?
What do we want to achieve (luck)
Do we want to enjoy ourselves and others

All insights are welcome, please donít scream band names without underlying arguments.
Kind regards, Gus


Re: My OWN essay #1 - my answer to Sergei Starostin a.o.
Reply #1 on: November 25, 2020, 15:27:43
Good show @LePlongeur   :ok:   

I enjoy this type of thinking very much! You already know that ....   ;)   

Quote
A DJ makes music, but uses different gear/tools. It may or may not be your cup of tea, but to dismiss that kind of music without even thinking seems ridiculous to me.

^ This !  :thumbsup:  ^

Your parents hate your music. It doesn't mean they are right. Try programming a drop or a wobble stutter bass ( Is that the right lingo there @Dakoda  ? ha, ha ! ) It is not easy. Try mixing one of your tracks to sound like something by the Fat Rat, Srillex or Dead Maus  .... it is not easy at all. Yeah there is bad EDM .... there's bad everything ...

Quote
Technical vs special
We seem to fancy myths. Practice till your fingers bleed and you will be a good musician.
Crap of course. The Beatles were special, but George was no John McLaughlin. So the amount of notes per second is interesting for only a limited public.

Only the things like doing very much will bring you much joy and may even be successful.
And I would choose/chose fun over practice any time.

but ... what if you find joy/ inner peace by playing way too many notes way to fast? !?  :D       Tempo Police  C:-)


Quote
Race or color
The original #1ís 51 pages are almost entirely about whiteys making music.
Very little about mixing (came naturally in jazz) like the Electric Flag.
Colored was not very present. Soul, Bollywood, Warda Al Jazeera for instance. Miriam Makeba.
Plus we had the watered down sort of course:  Pat Boone, Bill Haley, UB 40, to name a few.

Quote
Is the music we want to listen to (to make) race based

Very interesting to me.
I've spent great amounts of my musical existence as the only "white guy" in bands and a lot of time in mixed groups.
Groups entirely Puerto Rican.            ( even some famous ones )
Groups entirely African American. 
                                            ............ except for me of course. 
                        .... they all have their own "swing" ..... the notes in between the notes you know
... cultural and upbringing in dance culture I believe and not necessarily based upon race. I mean I was able to develop the feel.


One question I have is what is it about ( especially white ) people who have this undying extreme loyalty to the music of their teenage years?  ???
To the extent that they will write dissertations, create videos a la Rick Beato and discuss on podcasts  about how it is far superior to all other music.  :-\  ... and how other music isn't "real music".
Maybe the cure for that is to experience music from other cultures.  Maybe?

Bill
Songwriter, Keyboards, Arranger, Producer & Engineer for November Sound

November Sound is based on the Mother, Father & Son musical trio of Melissa, Bill & Will. I'm the father so anything I post will have my wife singing and/or my son playing percussion.


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Re: My OWN essay #1 - my answer to Sergei Starostin a.o.
Reply #2 on: November 26, 2020, 00:15:40
« Last Edit: November 26, 2020, 18:29:47 by oorlab »
@LePlongeur  -  Starostin's piece was mentioned in another context: as an example of an argument that things are demising,  this forum or in music in general. I don't agree with that, but I' m eager to learn from the argumentation. And I was impressed with the broadness of the piece.

Re Beatles - I think of them as part of several traditions - part Kurt Weil, Bertholt Brecht but also Woody Guthrie and off course Chuck Berry.
For me as a listener that mix still works.
@Bill from November I experienced music form other cultures when i was quite small (3 - 4 years), while listening to a 45 RPM vinyl record of Indonesian Gamelan music. Only later I learned that this was not from 'my culture'. From a seafaring uncle I learned a bit about Arab music...

new guitar 4-6-2020 https://soundcloud.com/oorlab/12string-demo1 12string Cort.


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Re: My OWN essay #1 - my answer to Sergei Starostin a.o.
Reply #3 on: November 26, 2020, 07:53:23
« Last Edit: November 26, 2020, 08:17:28 by LePlongeur »
@oorlab
Sorry, I didnít want to question your honesty. And if I gave that impression, that is 100% misplaced. If that is what you thought I did I must have formulated wrongly.

@MrBouzouki asked the Kitcheners something personal. I.e. how they relate to the forum, what their motives are etc.
I couldnít see exactly what a Russian criticís opinion of 60ís music had to do with it. And I still donít.
And yes, I read it twice.

And I think itís a very important question. I would hate to see this forum go under by going out of sync with wishes and expectations of the Kitcheners.

With this thread, I wanted to take the discussion a step further. Not (exaggerated) after the Beatles ..... and all this computer rubbish is no art.
But, instead, what do we have to bring/what do we have to be aware of if we want to bring the music in the Kitchen further. If we want to help each other getting better. Keeping each other interested.
Giving the people professional advice, I mean those that seek that advice.
Enjoy the music thatís posted by people who donít look for advice, simply because they are happy writing.

So, we can cause disinterest with people who want help and not getting serious the kind of help they are looking for.
And the opposite, people who simply are here for the fun of it can be driven away when there is little acceptance of the fact that they donít want any help.

A long winded answer maybe. But the core of it is that I didnít see any relevance of Sergeiís essay and MrBís question.

Kind regards, Gus


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Re: My OWN essay #1 - my answer to Sergei Starostin a.o.
Reply #4 on: November 26, 2020, 18:32:41
@LePlongeur  - fair enough, point taken. Instead of Starostin I could have mentioned Fukuyama's End of history as an association with the question why this forum would be demising.


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Re: My OWN essay #1 - my answer to Sergei Starostin a.o.
Reply #5 on: November 26, 2020, 19:53:22
« Last Edit: November 27, 2020, 10:48:06 by LePlongeur »

Quote
Technical vs special

but ... what if you find joy/ inner peace by playing way too many notes way to fast? !?  :D       Tempo Police 

Unquote

If you want to play quicker than I can listen, and it give you a lot of fun? I say: do it.

But if I ask you to teach me piano since I get very nervous of all the identical keys, how much do I have to practice according to your book?

I can tell you: no matter how much I practice, I donít stand a chance.
So I better zoom in on having fun.
Agree? @Bill from November Sound
Kind regards, Gus



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