• Social appropriation
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Social appropriation
on: January 09, 2020, 10:59:56
« Last Edit: January 09, 2020, 11:06:28 by LePlongeur »
Situation where the user is skilled enough so that the technology is invisible in his social use. (Unesco 10th of Sep 2019)


Political correctness and Social appropriation are brothers and sisters. Not quite the same, but having the same stiffling effect on the will or freedom to create.
And that stiffling effect is one of  self-limitation or self-censorship.

Self-censorship is an instrument of fear. It makes sure that the writer will stay on the safe side of the line. Out of fear that transgressions are punished.

On a forum, I think, we should be guided by a fair amount of good taste and respect. Both a bit difficult, I must add. What good taste is for one person, can be repulsive to another. As there is no yardstick, thereís no way to measure up the amount of good taste applied. The same goes for respect. Respect has grown to a size, where people who demand to be given respect the loudest, are often the same people showing very little respect. For woman for instance.

So I coin, that good taste in the Kitchen must be the central idea that the writer has no intention to hurt the feelings of others.

Although very small portions of the ideas of Political correctness and Social appropriation can be OKíed, in my opinion cultural appropriation is ridicule. How on earth can we appropriate a culture?

My suggestions:
Research the Social settings
Be aware of overriding differences in believe, traditions, sentiment in other parts of the World.

Avoid the Sacred
In the West, it can be easy to sometimes overlook the sacred. What might seem a bit of fun, a joke or an innocent mistake to some, may cause serious distress to others. Much of the world still holds some things sacred, whether that be God, gods, spirits, symbols or anything else. Using the sacred is a serious no-no I think. Even when living in the free East, as I do.

Donít Stereotype
A big issue with adopting from other social settings, is that itís often based on stereotypes, often negative and incorrect. It can easily happen, when a foreigner peers into another culture. Their understanding of the issue may be based on stereotypes.

Above all
Social appropriation should not limit us. Differences in social settings can be used to speed up mutual understanding that is so very very needed. And very very is on purpose.
Social appropriation should (help) create and upholster our ability to absorberen/incasseren (gtranslate/deepl? No English words available) (would take or absorb be the word to use?) small differences.

If we politically and correctly equalize everything, we end up all the same. While it is my deep believe that only the reasonable differences make the Kitchen worthwhile.
Living worth while come to think of it. The quickest way to peace is mixed marriages. Quote from my granddad. And he practiced what he preached.

Summary:
My idea would be to evaluate the artistic merit more than the idea how would my neighbors react if they caught me reading/listening to this?
Please feel free to post your ideas if you feel like. Specially if you don't underwrite this view.
Kind regards, Gus


I almost forgot: Now that social appropriation in Europe is on its way back (The Guardian - UK circa one month ago) , the UNESCO is big headed enough to feel free to lay down the line to all writers around the world. Let alone, ruling something without telling us how or with what or by whom my writings will be reviewed.


Re: Social appropriation
Reply #1 on: January 09, 2020, 16:40:32
Hard to read but when managed, one quote comes to my mind : ????

The great enemy of clear language is insincerity. When there is a gap between one's real and one's
declared aims, one turns as it were instinctively to long words and exhausted idioms, like a cuttlefish
squirting out ink... Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer
cloudy vagueness. *George Orwell

let me think about it a bit longer..........
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Re: Social appropriation
Reply #2 on: January 09, 2020, 17:19:11
The quickest way to peace is mixed marriages.

Well put throughout, Gus @LePlongeur . The above quote really caught my attention.

In any marriage one must strive to understand and incorporate the ideas and beliefs of the partner in order to form a functional union. A mixed marriage will bring much more diversity to the equation and thereby require a bit more work at much deeper levels. Theoretically, that extra work will create an even stronger shared bond.

A tightly knit community like The Kitchen will have very similar dynamics.
"The main thing is to have a gutsy approach....but use your head." Julia Child

 "In a world of robotic conformity, the only originality left in music is the imperfections" Eric Craptone

"Special thanks to Steve Gleason for making me who I am today." Leonard Scaper

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Re: Social appropriation
Reply #3 on: January 09, 2020, 19:48:38
« Last Edit: January 09, 2020, 19:55:17 by LePlongeur »
Hard to read but when managed, one quote comes to my mind : ????

The great enemy of clear language is insincerity. When there is a gap between one's real and one's
declared aims, one turns as it were instinctively to long words and exhausted idioms, like a cuttlefish
squirting out ink... Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer
cloudy vagueness. *George Orwell

let me think about it a bit longer..........

If being sincere results in clear language, then maybe thatís the problem. Some find my language too clear.
(Smiley)
But thank you for reading and trying to get to the bottom. Thank you for your encouragement too.
Donít invest too much time in this, especially if you donít have it.

Thanks very much, youíre a great friend @Chris Spruit
Kind regards, Gus


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Re: Social appropriation
Reply #4 on: January 09, 2020, 19:53:17
The quickest way to peace is mixed marriages.

Well put throughout, Gus @LePlongeur . The above quote really caught my attention.

In any marriage one must strive to understand and incorporate the ideas and beliefs of the partner in order to form a functional union. A mixed marriage will bring much more diversity to the equation and thereby require a bit more work at much deeper levels. Theoretically, that extra work will create an even stronger shared bond.

A tightly knit community like The Kitchen will have very similar dynamics.

Very dynamic dynamics @Leonard Scaper .
And thank you for the time it certainly took to read it. I am still a bit insecure about my English, but itís a learning by doing thing. Itís not at all an easy subject and thereís going to be a follow up too.

And hats off to grand dad and what you wrote about that.
I like the idea that grand dad and I have contributed to the Kitchen.
Kind regards, Gus


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Re: Social appropriation
Reply #5 on: January 10, 2020, 07:15:42
The follow up on the first post. Why is it, that a lot of people seem to assume that my work is autobiographical. This is what really annoys me. They donít even ask if they see it right. Here are a couple of reasonings, derived from automatic writing:

Why would I write from first hand experience only?
- dear diary......
- those who do (ok by me) but why do they think I am their shrink

Writing from creating characters with features I do not own (gender, orientation and so on)
- why is that impossible
- why would I be interested in writing purely clones of myself

Now what I
- I am humble about what I donít know
- But at the same time I am curious about what makes people tick
- I transgress without transgression
- if it hurts you? Give it up, you might hear stories

Now what II
- restrictions I see as an infringement of my creative liberty
- a liberty I am addicted to

Whoís to tell us what to do and how to do it
- I donít like boundaries to my imagination
- letís make good fiction instead of faction

Is it one thing versus (as opposed to) another
- my lyrics were set in (for instance) Amsterdam
- why? Why not

Is it fake because itís dreamed up
- could be, but it can be honest too! Confusing!

Fiction, faction, journalism, dairy, owning up, get it off your chest
- fiction proves that we can think up things
- things that never were
- itís an imaginative act
- autobiographical is at best good journalism
- I feel safe with the passion to create

Itís a puzzle
- many people do Sudokus
- Iíd rather make and solve my own puzzles

100% fool proof? EinfŁhlung and empathy
- we need to accept failure
- maybe I need to tell now and then, Ďií Isnít always me

Moby Grape
- the band that recorded Ď805í, one of the most beautiful songs in history
- the band that took Jefferson Airplaneís drummer and let him play guitar and sing
- the band that did the single most awful gig I ever saw in the Netherlands
- the band that lost Bob Mosely (bass and vocals) because he volunteered to go to Vietnam
- yes, he did return, did not write any relevant song again
- and it certainly did not enhance his ideas about writing from first hand experience

In the time I wrote this, I baked our bread for today too. Only to proof that men can do three things at the same time.
Yes three of course.
Kind regards, Gus


Re: Social appropriation
Reply #6 on: January 10, 2020, 10:19:41
« Last Edit: January 10, 2020, 10:38:45 by Chris Spruit »
Dear Gus,

I am a bit sad that we do have to discuss things like that in a music forum, where we should be able to move and communicate freely and also present explosive topics .

That is why I join the discussion once again: In German in Translation for all the *Mischehen :-) we have here lol......*a touchy word for a German , some would say.....KIDDING!!!!!!!!!MAYBE TEASING!!!!!

Meines Erachtens  gibt es Einiges zu unterscheiden und meist ist die Interpretation und Auslegung eines Textes parteiisch motiviert. Insbesondere bei bestimmten Themen, die die Ųffentliche Meinung spalten oder aber persŲnlich ausgelegt und bezogen werden.
Was ist die Natur des Lesers / HŲrer und der moralische Stand , unterschiedliche Werte, sachliches UrteilsvermŲgenÖ. Somit der Rahmen, die die Menschen zur Analyse der Welt um sie herum einsetzen.
Diese Meinungsverschiedenheiten sind unvermeidlich und gesund.
Du Gus, hast anscheinend  das Potenzial, einen konstruktiven Austausch zu erzeugen, aus dem alle Beteiligten lernen kŲnnen und besseres Ųffentliches Verstšndnis entstehen kann.


Naar mijn mening zijn er een aantal zaken te onderscheiden en is de interpretatie en interpretatie van een tekst meestal partijdig. Vooral als het gaat om bepaalde kwesties die de publieke opinie verdelen of die geÔnterpreteerd worden en verband houden met persoonlijke kwesties.
Wat is de aard van de lezer / luisteraar en de morele staat , verschillende waarden , objectief oordeel . Dus het kader dat mensen gebruiken om de wereld om hen heen te analyseren.
Deze meningsverschillen zijn onvermijdelijk en gezond.
Gus, hebben blijkbaar de potentie om een constructieve uitwisseling te creŽren waar alle partijen van kunnen leren en waar een beter begrip bij het publiek kan ontstaan.

Vertaald met www.DeepL.com/Translator (gratis versie)

In my opinion a number of things can be distinguished and the interpretation and interpretation of a text is usually biased. Especially when it comes to certain issues that divide public opinion or that are interpreted and related to personal issues.
What is the nature of the reader/listener and the moral state, different values, objective judgment. So the framework that people use to analyze the world around them.
These disagreements are inevitable and healthy.
Gus, apparently have the potential to create a constructive exchange from which all parties can learn and where a better public understanding can arise.


Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)


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Re: Social appropriation
Reply #7 on: January 10, 2020, 10:40:00
Hello Gus,

i just want shortly feedback you that i follow interested your topic.
Yesterday i wasn't sure why you brought the topic up, i  rather didn't saw a reason for it as long I'm here in the forum what isn't really long i admit.
Today second post of you explained the reason. I can calm you down... after you did your second sond ( counted from time I'm here) and you did a short comment that isn't a personal experience all is fine i understand that also  I still would have a lot of question about...... and you should take it as a good thing that some audience is interested in the lyrics and sense of ;-)
But I   think nowerdays the ability of persons in our societis to do own conclusions and transfer things from similar to NEW situations to 'solve' or correct  a thing in mind and change perspectives etc etc is going to become very poor. After my experience more and more ppl miss the ability to do an abstract thoughts and need explains for everything to understand it right.
I just can tell how I deal with that issue that i experienced in a lot of ways too ( despite songwriting) I just give a fuck to what pŁpl think or believe also they are the majority but what I do isn't a democratic desicion. Even the most common  people don't try to understand what the other person want have express because they are such shallow itselfs.
This is something I NOT have experienced here in the kitchen so far. :-) No, and I dont see a reason to do a very big thing from that here. Yes our cultures are different and our feelings and triggers are different. But you can't take care about everybodies mindset if your intenion is pure.
I juts see pure intentions here!!  ::smiley::

Of course i would like to talk with you about this more among 4 eyes in the oorlab-cafe while listening to kitcheners performances, yeah i would like but it isn't a must. I think its ok at first just  to accept what an other mind does and ticks.

And btw multitasking ability of woman is a hoax!
Have a wonderful day and i awaiting another song soon played with your new guitar! ::e-guitar3::




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Re: Social appropriation
Reply #8 on: January 10, 2020, 10:49:22
@Mo @Chris Spruit  @LePlongeur

Assumptions about autobiographical characters are cause for lots of speculations these days.  I'd be interested to read about specific cases in the lyric section. Until now this thread is a bit abstract to me, but I love to learn.

recommending https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_Music_Works "How music works", book by David Byrne.


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Re: Social appropriation
Reply #9 on: January 10, 2020, 13:19:03
@Chris Spruit
Please donít be sad. I am aware that I have a rather forceful way of writing when it comes to lyrics. Or a way of writing that provokes reactions.
And I am treated very well in da Kitchen. So itís not a complaint.
But instead of explaining what I think of as obvious things, I would rather sum it all up in an orderly way.

So that people can see how I look at things and I can avoid explaining thing 22 times and come to a point when itís actually holding me back from posting certain lyrics or songs.

Your feed back has helped me a  lot to get to grips with the subject and to get it jotted down. And I am glad with your help.

deepL is German and recently I use it a lot. Itís way way better than G Translate.
I seriously consider buying a license.

@Mo
Please Mo, donít take things personally. My posts are not against people, they are meant to get a better understanding of the subject. So, not against but for. To improve.

Having to explain over and over is annoying and I think I got that out of the system.
Now (I hope) I can simply state if itís biographical or auto biographical and go on with the things of the day.
Itís just my way of thinking that itís better to invest more time at one piece of work than smaller portions repeatedly.

@oorlab
Donít see it as an attack, because itís not intended that way.
Itís an explanation of how I look at the current trend of the required way to work. And if you donít conform, you have something to explain. And I donít look forward to that.

When the proximity effect came about, I wrote down what I knew, and this is no different.
If itís too abstract for you (at this moment) thatís fine. Then itís not a post for you.

Kind regards, Gus


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Re: Social appropriation
Reply #10 on: January 10, 2020, 14:05:27
Dear Gus,
I don't took anything personally, I'm far far away from that. Please don't think that :)
I just reacted because i like if ppl speak up!  Its annoying for me people don't discuss. Just wanted show my sight to similar 'problems'  I have experienced.
Please simply go on  with the things you love :-)


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Re: Social appropriation
Reply #11 on: January 12, 2020, 07:50:56
Yes I will, thank you @Mo .
The best we can do is do small things with great love.
Thank you for that encouragement too.
Kind regards, Gus


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Re: Social appropriation
Reply #12 on: January 12, 2020, 11:02:31
Yes I will,

Yeah, that i wanted hear! Can't wait for it! :D



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