• is repetition.. the key element in songwriting?
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« Last Edit: June 09, 2020, 21:14:28 by Dutchbeat »
 ;D ;D ;D repetition...i repeat...
repetition
is the main element of songwriting  ::) ::)

yet we often also look down on it...on...repetition, too much repetition

but in fact, there is no song without repetition of some sort...

what are your feelings about that?

about...repetition  ;D ;D... i mean  ;D ;D ;D ;D
me, myself, and Pie


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Re: is repetition.. the key element in songwriting?
Reply #1 on: June 10, 2020, 08:30:12
« Last Edit: June 10, 2020, 12:10:19 by Mo »
 Beside the functions of underpin a statement or burn words into the brain due neuro linguistic programming a rememberable mark or meaning, it can have simple  pragmatic reason too.
 
As f.e. repetition of lets say 24-25 words entirely for a whole song of normal length could help the final mixer and allows maximal range for beeing creative with rearangment.  In the way carry the essence of  two dozend words through the whole song and keep their meaning while there is a option chopping two dozend more that were produced in vocals by repetition.

This pragmatic tool would avoid maim to the point of futility in this case.


*edit: typos*


Re: is repetition.. the key element in songwriting?
Reply #2 on: June 10, 2020, 14:26:30
Well there are pieces of music with no repetition but at that point they are no longer "songs" but, rather, "pieces" or "compositions". Usually a composer who decides to show the world that music can exist without repetition.
It can. It's not always enjoyable to listen to.
Bill
Songwriter, Keyboards, Arranger, Producer & Engineer for November Sound

November Sound is based on the Mother, Father & Son musical trio of Melissa, Bill & Will. I'm the father so anything I post will have my wife singing and/or my son playing percussion.


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Re: is repetition.. the key element in songwriting?
Reply #3 on: June 10, 2020, 22:14:32
Beside the functions of underpin a statement or burn words into the brain due neuro linguistic programming a rememberable mark or meaning, it can have simple  pragmatic reason too.
 
As f.e. repetition of lets say 24-25 words entirely for a whole song of normal length could help the final mixer and allows maximal range for beeing creative with rearangment.  In the way carry the essence of  two dozend words through the whole song and keep their meaning while there is a option chopping two dozend more that were produced in vocals by repetition.

This pragmatic tool would avoid maim to the point of futility in this case.


*edit: typos*


Be it a bit chaotic, I love your post. Straight from the heart.
Cheers to that or this or....
Yes., this captures it all. Don't you worry.

Kind regards, Gus


Re: is repetition.. the key element in songwriting?
Reply #4 on: June 10, 2020, 22:16:19
I always like songs I can sing along with DB, repetition and a catchy melody. (things I'm unable to do though)  @Dutchbeat

Vince
 
Vince


Re: is repetition.. the key element in songwriting?
Reply #5 on: June 11, 2020, 15:10:22
I think that repetition, either through a lyrical hook or and instrumental hook is crucial if you want to hold the attention of your listener.
"The main thing is to have a gutsy approach....but use your head." Julia Child

 "In a world of robotic conformity, the only originality left in music is the imperfections" Eric Craptone

"Special thanks to Steve Gleason for making me who I am today." Leonard Scaper

Lenny's Tunes: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_music.cfm?bandID=540680

https://soundcloud.com/vincentgleason


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Re: is repetition.. the key element in songwriting?
Reply #6 on: June 18, 2020, 08:19:14
« Last Edit: June 18, 2020, 15:52:06 by LePlongeur »
All lyricists in da Kitchen, get you hopes up.
If repetition and one syllable lyrics are THE thing to do, there must be ways to better that level. Except for Mo’s level. You better leave that alone!



Enjoy! if possible

Kind regards, Gus


Re: is repetition.. the key element in songwriting?
Reply #7 on: June 19, 2020, 05:37:55
Well @LePlongeur  ..... a remarkable improvement I think.  :thumbsup:
What say you @Dutchbeat  ?   ::Hoss::


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Re: is repetition.. the key element in songwriting?
Reply #8 on: June 19, 2020, 13:58:04
Yes, @Bill from November Sound , I thought they seriously lacked structure and vision in the beginning, and that’s so efficiently remedied here.
Makes me almost a fan.
You know: When the shit hits the fan, I’m in deep doo doo.
Really!
Kind regards, Gus


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Re: is repetition.. the key element in songwriting?
Reply #9 on: June 19, 2020, 22:25:44
you guys...  @LePlongeur and @Bill from November Sound ...are terrible

yes, you are  :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes:, both of you!

making a mockery of the Beatles!  ;D ;D ;D ;D like that

i will let this go... ;D ;D ;D ;D, but i could have given you both a warning  ;D ;D ;D ;D,
or ban you for a day even!!!! if i would know how to  :P :P :P :P :P

but go wash your mouths with soap!
there is no room....for ridiculing...the.... :o :o

the BEATLES  :o :o :o :o >:( >:( ;D ;D ;D on a songwriter forum!  >:( >:( >:(


Re: is repetition.. the key element in songwriting?
Reply #10 on: June 22, 2020, 23:39:34
You bring up a good point @Dutchbeat  one might even say an "obvious" point... overlooking the obvious is generally a mistake.

So let me take obviousness to the next level... When is repetition "to repetitious?" Aye! there's the rub!

Repetition works best when it sets up a context, an expectation, and then there is a Surprise!  :pompom: :lol:

It occurs to me that with spoken word repetition is actually a faux pas... known as redundancy. One holds the listeners attention by moving the story (or message) forward through development of ideas... repetition sounds "preachy" or like a "lecture" unless it manages to wax poetic. @Bill from November Sound 's point about music that attempts this is often not great. Not impossible... elusive at best. It helps if there are at least the occasional reference to earlier parts... sort of like "Meanwhile... back at the Ranch!" in story telling.

These differences are intriguing.... thank you for bringing this up!  ::thumb::

And the Beatles wrote some of the best songwriting gems of the 20th Century  :praise: :praise: :praise:


Re: is repetition.. the key element in songwriting?
Reply #11 on: June 23, 2020, 05:53:40
Quote
And the Beatles wrote some of the best songwriting gems of the 20th Century  :praise: :praise: :praise:
...... and although this may be true @1roomstudio  one cannot deny the sheer entertainment value of suggesting that a Beatles could be properly alphabetized or limited to the use of two notes for improvement.
 :D
Did you see how many angry emojis @Dutchbeat used?!  :shinyteeth:  ;D  ;D  :lol:  :shinyteeth:  ;D


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Re: is repetition.. the key element in songwriting?
Reply #12 on: June 23, 2020, 08:52:04
We, the Dutch, are very proud of our 'Gouden eeuw', loosely translated as Golden Century.
Please note: It's singular, a very very long time ago and not really free from aspects that still put us to shame today.

The same goes for the Beatles, I'm afraid. The 20th Century and The Beatles is 'some' time ago. And they stole Richard Starkey in a not so pleasant way from Rory Storm.

Please direct your attention to the Kitchen, where gems are happening that are not made 50 years ago.
And I, who caused so much damage to this lovely topic, will try to steer it back with Edie Brickell, a very fine artist in her own right. Plenty repetition, apart from the blues being repetitive by nature:



And the original, a gem from the early Atlantic catalogue:



So, @Dutchbeat and @Bill from November Sound, I more and more start to believe that repetition is a crucial factor in our song tradition.
Kind regards, Gus