• Music Theory For Songwriters YouTube video by Rick Beato
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« Last Edit: August 07, 2018, 00:59:04 by MrBouzouki »
A useful current video by Rick about using chords and signature riffs in songwriting.

If you are caught using the same chords over and over then this video might help to kick-start some new thinking

"Love and Life is all about connections"


Re: Music Theory For Songwriters YouTube video by Rick Beato
Reply #1 on: August 07, 2018, 14:22:06
Thanks for sharing @MrBouzouki . This guy seems to be all over YouTube (in a good way).

For somebody just starting out - chord progressions can be expressed as roman numerals.  I(Major) ii (minor) iii (minor) IV (major) V (major)
vi (minor) vi (Diminished) 

So the Key of C would be C Dm Em F G Am Bdim and then back to C. So a 1 IV V progression in the key of C would be C F G. It makes it easier for example with a singer who has a one note range like me - to take a song from say the key of Eb to the key of G.

V.


Re: Music Theory For Songwriters YouTube video by Rick Beato
Reply #2 on: August 11, 2018, 17:27:25
If this guy thinks thinks the Beatles are "super sophisticated" with their harmonic progressions what would he think about the great American songbook writers of the 1930's and 40's? Can he? The music of Irving Berlin, the Gershwins, Cole Porter, Rodgers & Hammerstein, etc. is the most advanced music (to have popular appeal) when it comes to harmonic sophistication. Also if you look at their song forms they'd have a single verse and then a chorus which was essentially a different and completely independent song. (AABA 32 Bars)  Musicians today still work with all of these "standards" only performing the choruses. 

In the video he says music gets more sophisticated as you go back farther in history so let's go back to ........ ::Dutch::....drum roll please ......"The Beatles".  ;) Ha,ha! He could've gone back a little farther. The Beatles were influenced by and borrowed from the great songwriters as much ... or even more than anybody else.


Since "My Funny Valentine" was crafted by Richard Rogers and Lorenz Hart in 1937, it's safe to say that the Beatles did not influence that song as a he seems to suggest. 

It is, however, cool that he's suggesting people might want to try different chord progressions in their songs.
Bill
Songwriter, Keyboards, Arranger, Producer & Engineer for November Sound

November Sound is based on the Mother, Father & Son musical trio of Melissa, Bill & Will. I'm the father so anything I post will have my wife singing and/or my son playing percussion.


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Re: Music Theory For Songwriters YouTube video by Rick Beato
Reply #3 on: August 14, 2018, 02:54:53
Hey @Bill from November Sound , he is a jazz guy and American so he is probably aware of what you speak.
I imagine he used the Beatles mostly because he's was trying to inform youngsters who think music history started in the late 50's early 60's. ;-)
As such I guess the fab four are correctly cited as major influences of popular music.
How well they might have done without the influence of George Martin we will never know. His work with them and arrangements gave another layer to their sound.
 


Re: Music Theory For Songwriters YouTube video by Rick Beato
Reply #4 on: August 14, 2018, 04:59:02
Quote
I imagine he used the Beatles mostly because he's was trying to inform youngsters who think music history started in the late 50's early 60's. ;-)
Ha, ha @MrBouzouki that's true!!!
Little do people know that the real British Invasion happened in 1400 with John Dunstable. This is the one time that the classical music world shows respect to the English. If not for him we'd likely all still be singing in perfect fourths, open fifths and various contrapuntal lines based on the Gregorian chants. We probably wouldn't even have chords at all. His full triadic harmony rocked the world!  :)


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Re: Music Theory For Songwriters YouTube video by Rick Beato
Reply #5 on: August 14, 2018, 08:00:22
 I love to read topics like this one. And often I try to have the patience for people like the guy in the vid. And thank you @MrBouzouki for trying to make a better writer out of us.
This video is something else though.
I used to have a teacher who went Ďoní with the bell and Ďoffí again an hour later.
This guys has the same quality in my opinion; regardless if the pupils are still outside skating, he sets off at his strong believes.

I alfabeticise (? Learn them to come to grips with my language) the moms and children of refugees. Moms because they are the center point in the family and are in charge of practical things. Children because they were never asked.
I believe you wonít learn to make love studying that Kama Sutra. So I have lengthy talks with them. On all kinds of things. Learning not via theory but by doing it.

This video guy lost me after 8 minutes. @Bill from November Sound Ďs analyses the thing well I think. Beatles, huh?
The great American songbook was sometimes beautiful but outdated by what should rightly be the new American songbook.
Look at all the beauty Carole King wrote. Or Ellie Greenwich (child of Russian refugees), who had, I believe, 14 or 15 top hits in 1964 alone. It may or may not be to your taste, but it shows that she was very much aware what people wanted to listen to.
The American invasion only dampened the first American invasion. Irving Berlin wrote everything in F# and had special levers on his piano to change the key, if need be. So all theory in the garbage bin.

The way the guy in the vid presents things is almost as if itís the olympics and I am inferior if I donít want to be busy with the theory too much.
I am primitive enough to enjoy driving my car. With a friend, I once overhauled a 1923 1 cylinder motor for a ship.
Now I am perfectly OK that I donít understand zero about what goes on under the hood of the motor compartment. My car uses less than 5 liters for 100 kilometers, something I with my knowledge of motors could only dream of.

If you are (in short) curious enough to figure out theoretically what beauty you just made, listen to the guy in the video. But donít think for a second that too much analysis and theory will make you a more creative writer.

Yes, itís only an opinion. But itís my opinion.
Kind regards, Gus



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Re: Music Theory For Songwriters YouTube video by Rick Beato
Reply #6 on: August 14, 2018, 11:39:05
I get you Gus @LePlongeur. He comes from a jazz background I believe and rediscovered rock much later in his life.
I think his idea is to try and engage people to make music and if that is by suggesting structure, ideas etc. then that's fine by me.
He does come across as a bit of a know-it-all at times but I've got to the stage in my life where I can ignore stuff and hopefully lift out the info I need.
The fact that he's got 479,315 subscribers suggests he is doing something right.

I get you about the theory too. I think I have just enough to get by but I don't think of theory as a cage, more a set of ladders to help you climb out of it  ;-)
The real secret of music I believe is freedom of expression and if rules get in the way, well they are just to there to help you conform to a current way of thinking.

Our western cultures have one set of music rules, other cultures have completely different ones, and to our brains their music sounds exotic or odd.
It's interesting that African slaves brought dissonance to America and started a major musical shift as a result. So difference is what you need and an urge to experiment.

If you want to create something that might be a commercial flop but musically stimulating you need to work at the margins and follow your own piper.  ::trumpet::



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Re: Music Theory For Songwriters YouTube video by Rick Beato
Reply #7 on: August 14, 2018, 14:08:52
I will be the first to admit I wrongfully neglected theory. And iíve Encouraged our children to pay more attention to this than I have done.
Looking back, my post reads like I am fully against theory and this might be true but not a 100%.

What triggered me I gues was the harping on a standard 4 chord progression. And that so many songs have been written using this progression.
I can clearly remember a 3 chord progression which they call the blues.
And the number of songs that were directly or indirectly based on that. The same goes for the 4 chord doo wop chord progression, for want of another word.
Dion and the Belmonts were nowhere if not for that scheme. Their complete oeuvre is based on that. The soundtrack of my puberty.

Perhaps I must say again, that I am glad you bring up these ideas. Itís a matter of priorities. What I gathered in the first 8 minutes, the guy seems to value theory much more than I will ever do. For me itís music first (hey this sounds familiar) and when Iím stuck I hope to be able to fall back on theory.

I really hope you are not being discouraged by my rant and rave.
Kind regards, Gus



Re: Music Theory For Songwriters YouTube video by Rick Beato
Reply #8 on: August 15, 2018, 02:02:24
You know @LePlongeur there is a musical about Ellie Greenwich ... I'm not a huge fan of musicals mind you .... but anyway, Melissa played the Ellie character in our local community theater. It was pretty cool.

I love music theory. Music theory might actually be my instrument!  ;)  I love music history. I listen to music that some people wouldn't even consider music.

But, then again, I love riffing on four chords so much!!!  :) .... go figure. 


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Re: Music Theory For Songwriters YouTube video by Rick Beato
Reply #9 on: August 15, 2018, 14:33:33
I love music theory.

Music theory is not my strong point. I blame quantum mechanics.....the Heisenberg uncertainty relationship between precision and creativity.  ;)

 8)
"The main thing is to have a gutsy approach....but use your head." Julia Child

 "In a world of robotic conformity, the only originality left in music is the imperfections" Eric Craptone

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