• Proximity effect
  • Started by LePlongeur
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
  • MrBouzouki
  • Global Moderator
  • Sous Chef
  • *
  • *
  • "Let the Creators Create" :-)

    • 1542


    • 564
    • September 19, 2020, 22:55:45
    • Sheffield, UK
    • https://www.facebook.com/Mr.Bouzouki.Music/ https://www.youtube.com/user/MisterBouzouki https://soundcloud.com/mrbouzouki
  • more
Re: Proximity effect
Reply #15 on: January 10, 2019, 15:06:38
Finally Sarah Brightman and Andrea Bocelli two subtly different techniques, he is singing slightly down she is singing straight out.

To be honest I wonder just how much miking is actually going on as these calibre of singers can sing fantastically well unaided.

Sarah Brightman - voice of an angel  ::heart:: ::heart:: ::heart::

"Love and Life is all about connections"


  • LePlongeur
  • Sous Chef
  • *
  • In Tartiflette we trust

    • 1925


    • 414
    • Today at 15:50:25
    • Greater Amsterdam
  • more
Re: Proximity effect
Reply #16 on: January 10, 2019, 15:44:42
You are so right of course. Here is the start  of another (challenge worthy) misunderstanding.
I don’t advocate miking instead of singing. If the singing is rotten, no mic kan save the show.
But I think that the mic is the distribution part, therefore part of the instrument.
To catch the voice in the most favorable way, you have to be aware that using a mic is a technique in itself.

Frank Sinatra was known to get really pissed at people he could hear breathing in the mic. He told repeatedly that the people (women mostly) he caught breathing in the mic didn’t have a clue about the instrument. Untill his daughter did it and then there was little comment left. He himself breathed in through the corner of his mouth.

So yes, singing is very important, but nowadays we hear nothing without a mic.
Kind regards, Gus


  • Leonard Scaper
  • Executive Chef
  • *
  • Guest Chef

    • 4331


    • 1186
    • September 19, 2020, 12:30:01
    • Terra Firma
  • more
Re: Proximity effect
Reply #17 on: January 10, 2019, 16:28:45
Look how she actually drops the mic to fit her stature too.



Check out the slight proximity effect at 1:24 when she looks down at herself as she sings the word "up". You can hear the slight tonal difference in that word as her mouth gets closer to the mic.
"The main thing is to have a gutsy approach....but use your head." Julia Child

 "In a world of robotic conformity, the only originality left in music is the imperfections" Eric Craptone

"Special thanks to Steve Gleason for making me who I am today." Leonard Scaper

Lenny's Tunes: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_music.cfm?bandID=540680

https://soundcloud.com/vincentgleason


  • MrBouzouki
  • Global Moderator
  • Sous Chef
  • *
  • *
  • "Let the Creators Create" :-)

    • 1542


    • 564
    • September 19, 2020, 22:55:45
    • Sheffield, UK
    • https://www.facebook.com/Mr.Bouzouki.Music/ https://www.youtube.com/user/MisterBouzouki https://soundcloud.com/mrbouzouki
  • more
Re: Proximity effect
Reply #18 on: January 10, 2019, 20:29:24
Good spot @Leonard Scaper and thinking about mouth shapes is important too. Check out 4mins 50 secs when she adopts a certain mouth-shape for a particular held note. We learn some of that stuff in choir singing as it can have a great impact on what comes out. Even for non-professionals like us it's worth trying singing things in different ways. Certain techniques can make for a much more controlled performance.



Re: Proximity effect
Reply #19 on: January 10, 2019, 23:57:58
Hi @robertkc   … to the left of your screen below the members name in their post you'll see a heart and the bracketed text [ one karma coin for you]  … you click that.   :)  … maybe a few times !  :)    I like even numbers.  :ok:

Thanks @Bill from November Sound - I`ll practice on a few karma hearts!


Re: Proximity effect
Reply #20 on: January 12, 2019, 01:17:54
Very cool!

@LePlongeur  - I kind of do that angled down slightly above for her most of the time already. Although that suspend from the ceiling contraption looks like a nice piece of new gear to me!   :D

You know @MrBouzouki  the sing across the top of it ala Sarah Brightman looks pretty cool. ( love Sarah Brightman - btw  :loveit:  ...) Of course here and especially with the Josh Groban this is really top quality equipment in a really top quality hall or room .....  so it might not be the best in a lousy bedroom studio.  :)
Bill
Songwriter, Keyboards, Arranger, Producer & Engineer for November Sound

November Sound is based on the Mother, Father & Son musical trio of Melissa, Bill & Will. I'm the father so anything I post will have my wife singing and/or my son playing percussion.


Re: Proximity effect
Reply #21 on: October 29, 2019, 03:02:46
Hello,
Sorry to bump back up a really old thread …… I had a chance to experiment some more with this.  :)
That mic'ing style used on Sarah Brightman seems to be working for me @MrBouzouki @LePlongeur @Leonard Scaper  !  :) When recording the high, loud classical kind of stuff I tilted the mic ( a side address tube mic ) back at an angle, put it lower and had Melissa sing across the top of it. It is surrounded by one of those portable sound booth kind of things, there is a sound panel behind her and it seems to eliminate the rush of air from singing directly in.


  • Leonard Scaper
  • Executive Chef
  • *
  • Guest Chef

    • 4331


    • 1186
    • September 19, 2020, 12:30:01
    • Terra Firma
  • more
Re: Proximity effect
Reply #22 on: October 29, 2019, 12:07:11
I have been dialing my multi-pattern tube mic over toward figure 8. Not only does this let me work a little proximity effect into my performance but it also seems to do something special in the position that I have it in the room.

I have the mic pretty much in the center of my small room but I am facing into a corner that has a very good bass trap. The mic in fig. 8 is rejecting some of the side stuff and accepting sound from that bass trapped corner.


Re: Proximity effect
Reply #23 on: October 29, 2019, 22:56:00
That's pretty cool @Leonard Scaper   .... I never got the hang of that figure 8 pattern thing. We have it but I've only tried it a few times. ( I think I used it like that for a live trio recording where keys and percussion were to the sides.)

That's one of the difficulties recording someone else. They may not have enough patience to keep on keeping on while I have fun adjusting the microphones.  :D

So back when I was asking about the high female vocals we were working on this:
https://soundcloud.com/november-love-680008043/when-there-are-no-words/
but here I put the mic up above her and tilted it down for those really high "operatic" notes  .... with limited success. If you isolate that vocal track it is a bit noisy.
I have a new one coming soon ( I hope ) where we are using the tilt back and sing across the top mic'ing style.


  • LePlongeur
  • Sous Chef
  • *
  • In Tartiflette we trust

    • 1925


    • 414
    • Today at 15:50:25
    • Greater Amsterdam
  • more
Re: Proximity effect
Reply #24 on: January 04, 2020, 15:58:02
« Last Edit: January 04, 2020, 16:00:38 by LePlongeur »
Nice write up Gus. I am still experimenting with this myself.

Just to let you know what I have been doing lately...well I have been singing higher harmonies slightly further away from the mic than for the main melody. I have got a dual vocal sound now that seems to work, well to my ears anyway, where the harmonies are purposely thinner. Maybe controversial!

In my last song 'Lopsided Love' I have some mock dramatic sighs in the interlude when the protagonist recounts that he has been deserted by his true love! I found this worked best really close up to the mic, and thought I had made some progress here on this subject. I could easily point you in the direction of some songs on my SC where better proximity control could have made such a difference to the overall song's success.

So great to focus on this, thanks!

Bumperdebump!!!

The best remarks are those that pop up now and then in my head and make me ‘yardstick’ the questions in question again. I can only hope you’re still with me.
And guess what? I take more distance for background singing, and I was never aware that that is what I did.

My response is more than just a little fashionably late, @MichaelA , but I thank you a lot for teaching me what I already knew.

In short: yes, that’s what I also do and I like it fine.
Thank you very much!
Kind regards, Gus


  • CGHound
  • Patissier
  • *
  • Karma Hunter

    • 64


    • 6
    • Today at 05:27:24
  • more
Re: Proximity effect
Reply #25 on: May 11, 2020, 03:48:42
As an alternative viewpoint on mic placement for female classical (musical theatre) singers here is Elaine Paige singing "Don't Cry for Me Argentina"
Noticed the relaxed throat and that she is singing over the mic. That does fit with what my choir MD says about no tension around the throat area when singing.

Look how she actually drops the mic to fit her stature too.



What chaps my hide is I've had to work hard to sing adequately. I've done vocal training. Played in a band with this guy who could sing just about everything well. He could sing like Robert Plant with ease.

The placement in the Elaine Page video is probably placed that way to pick up he chest voice. Ella Fitzgerald held the mic low. A great singer can make any mic sound good.



moved
MOVED: Proximity effect

Started by Leonard Scaper on The kitchen café

0 Replies
381 Views
Last post January 09, 2019, 21:23:11
by Leonard Scaper