• World Music Tools
  • Started by Marcus Nalgaber
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World Music Tools
on: December 10, 2020, 14:32:52
« Last Edit: December 10, 2020, 14:43:06 by Marcus Nalgaber »
01:38:06 From examples of all the exotic scales to play world music



Regards,

Marcus


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Re: World Music Tools
Reply #1 on: December 11, 2020, 07:03:24
One and a half hour!!!
I like it a lot! Thank you for posting it. I am already listening to it but you have to trust me that I digest it in smaller pieces. See what I can learn from it.
What a talented guy you are!
Thank you!
Kind regards, Gus


Re: World Music Tools
Reply #2 on: December 11, 2020, 12:51:58
What a talented guy you are!

@LePlongeur  :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

I don't consider myself a talented guy and I don't want to be.
I'm just a guy with a lot of free time who doesn't mind working for others  :makeitup:


Re: World Music Tools
Reply #3 on: December 11, 2020, 19:46:36
This is cool! @Marcus Nalgaber 

I bet @Monty Cash Music  knows these scales too!  ;) He always uses different scales and modes like this! 
Bill
Songwriter, Keyboards, Arranger, Producer & Engineer for November Sound

November Sound is based on the Mother, Father & Son musical trio of Melissa, Bill & Will. I'm the father so anything I post will have my wife singing and/or my son playing percussion.


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Re: World Music Tools
Reply #4 on: December 11, 2020, 20:04:10
@Marcus Nalgaber , thanks for sharing these with us
it is clear to me you are so talented!

listen to you playing these scales, i would like to take a sample of you playing the scale and make a remix sort of track based on that
is that ok....i mean is that strange  ;D ;D ;D and also..of course .. ;D ;D ;D would you be ok with that, @Marcus Nalgaber ?

me, myself, and Pie


Re: World Music Tools
Reply #5 on: December 11, 2020, 22:06:13
This is cool! @Marcus Nalgaber 

I bet @Monty Cash Music  knows these scales too!  ;) He always uses different scales and modes like this!

@Bill from November Sound  :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

When you work on this type of scale for a while, then without even realizing it, you acquire a broader vision of those small melodic tensions that can give different characters to any music you play.


Re: World Music Tools
Reply #6 on: December 11, 2020, 22:09:58
@Marcus Nalgaber , thanks for sharing these with us
it is clear to me you are so talented!

listen to you playing these scales, i would like to take a sample of you playing the scale and make a remix sort of track based on that
is that ok....i mean is that strange  ;D ;D ;D and also..of course .. ;D ;D ;D would you be ok with that, @Marcus Nalgaber ?

@Dutchbeat  :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

You can use everything you want and do everything you want with it
You have all my permissions  :yes:


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Re: World Music Tools
Reply #7 on: December 12, 2020, 08:34:43
« Last Edit: December 12, 2020, 08:53:34 by Monty Cash Music »
Nice work man, it's a lot of fun to explore all these combinations.

A while back, I became addicted to the double harmonic minor, which then got me onto playing things in different modes and combinations according to the 12 note chromatic scale.

One world musician Ross Daly once said we must become accustomed to each scale and mode to discover its nuances and uses to then explore our ability to express ourselves within it.

In my personal search of music in my travels through eastern Europe and Turkey, I discovered using odd rhythms creates a completely different feel again to these scales. They take a bit of getting used but once naturalised they add yet another dimension to the music. Like a 7/8 going 12 12 123 or 123 12 12, try a 9 or a 10 even..

Within these rhythms new nuances are found using these modes and scales.

I found after exploring a range of westernised eastern scales that their origin was often in microtone inclusive scales or makams.

For example the jazz mode 'dominant phrygian' is a slight alteration to Hijaz. It is not true hijaz though, as it lacks the slight microtonal variations in two of the notes. The dominant western mind has just ironed over these modes with its blanket theory on music and lost some of the beautiful flavour.

With the original mode/makam of Hijaz in eastern music theory the scale is much softer and now having accustomed myself to it, is preferrable. The sudden jump to some of the notes is not so sharp.

12 notes in the spectrum feels limited when there are 53 commas to a Turkish 'octave'.

After training the ear to these tones it becomes yet another domain to play in. Don't worry! They're not all used in one song... Lol, only one two or three microtonal note might be used in a given makam.

The 12 note chromatic scale is to a large degree departed from once you leave bulgaria and enter turkey...

Makams in turkish traditional music also are not scales as such but musical methods with defining notes. They must be played in a certain way and sequence with different tetrachords and pentachords in order to remain true to its definition, a slight variation can make a different makam. Slight tone variations occur also depending on the ascending/descending behaviour of the makam.

We are so obsessed in putting our tones in definite boxes in the west, thus our obsession with frets. Often 'accidental' notes in Turkish makam are deliberately wandering.

The western improvisational method has much taken from these influences of ancient music: To remain in small boxes of notes at a given time and to use a call and response method using different pitches of the scale to create a dynamic sound with a collection of cadences.

I particularly love the simplicity of the pentatonic minor, using it in the way it is used in Tatar and Chinese traditional music. It's amazing to naturalise the ear to the different use of this scale, it's easy to forget it was ever used in rock and blues.

It's great to hear you explore these modes. Here's some food for thought if you'd like to take it further.

Find updates on my travels and music on http://peakd.com/@montycashmusic


Re: World Music Tools
Reply #8 on: December 12, 2020, 13:28:10
Nice work man, it's a lot of fun to explore all these combinations.

A while back, I became addicted to the double harmonic minor, which then got me onto playing things in different modes and combinations according to the 12 note chromatic scale.

One world musician Ross Daly once said we must become accustomed to each scale and mode to discover its nuances and uses to then explore our ability to express ourselves within it.

In my personal search of music in my travels through eastern Europe and Turkey, I discovered using odd rhythms creates a completely different feel again to these scales. They take a bit of getting used but once naturalised they add yet another dimension to the music. Like a 7/8 going 12 12 123 or 123 12 12, try a 9 or a 10 even..

Within these rhythms new nuances are found using these modes and scales.

I found after exploring a range of westernised eastern scales that their origin was often in microtone inclusive scales or makams.

For example the jazz mode 'dominant phrygian' is a slight alteration to Hijaz. It is not true hijaz though, as it lacks the slight microtonal variations in two of the notes. The dominant western mind has just ironed over these modes with its blanket theory on music and lost some of the beautiful flavour.

With the original mode/makam of Hijaz in eastern music theory the scale is much softer and now having accustomed myself to it, is preferrable. The sudden jump to some of the notes is not so sharp.

12 notes in the spectrum feels limited when there are 53 commas to a Turkish 'octave'.

After training the ear to these tones it becomes yet another domain to play in. Don't worry! They're not all used in one song... Lol, only one two or three microtonal note might be used in a given makam.

The 12 note chromatic scale is to a large degree departed from once you leave bulgaria and enter turkey...

Makams in turkish traditional music also are not scales as such but musical methods with defining notes. They must be played in a certain way and sequence with different tetrachords and pentachords in order to remain true to its definition, a slight variation can make a different makam. Slight tone variations occur also depending on the ascending/descending behaviour of the makam.

We are so obsessed in putting our tones in definite boxes in the west, thus our obsession with frets. Often 'accidental' notes in Turkish makam are deliberately wandering.

The western improvisational method has much taken from these influences of ancient music: To remain in small boxes of notes at a given time and to use a call and response method using different pitches of the scale to create a dynamic sound with a collection of cadences.

I particularly love the simplicity of the pentatonic minor, using it in the way it is used in Tatar and Chinese traditional music. It's amazing to naturalise the ear to the different use of this scale, it's easy to forget it was ever used in rock and blues.

It's great to hear you explore these modes. Here's some food for thought if you'd like to take it further.

@Monty Cash Music  :praise: :praise: :praise:  ::thumb:: ::thumb:: ::thumb::


Re: World Music Tools
Reply #9 on: December 14, 2020, 02:24:20
Yeah @Monty Cash Music @Marcus Nalgaber  .... I guess the frets get in the way at a certain point .... heck I got piano keys .... :D
Maybe I can jam a screwdriver in between the keys? .... for those notes in between the notes?
 ::)


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Re: World Music Tools
Reply #10 on: December 14, 2020, 09:16:09
« Last Edit: December 14, 2020, 09:25:31 by Monty Cash Music »
I have a solution for you @Bill from November Sound



I've seen one concert pianist even stick his hand inside the piano... looks a bit dirty even.. haha  :blackgrin:  - but anything's possible!

This might be an answer to the fixed fret guitar problem -  ;D



Here's a fretless guitar playing a hicaz taksim (improvisation) -



Compare that hicaz improv to this dominant phrygian improv -



Listen to the tones, the basic note locations are very similar but the microtones in the former make the same 'scale' feel so much softer. I acknowledge the styles here are vastly different.

The fretless guitar player is using the structure of the makam - there is not a lot of octave oriented acrobatics - this creates a simpler sound that creates more focus on the notes being played. There are no 'octaves' in turkish makam as we understand it in western music theory and each note actually has its own name.

As an observation of the two styles, western improvisation is much more expressive. The difference for me is that I can listen to turkish makam taksim for much longer than I can to western improvisational style - it is much less exhausting on the ears. The guy in the second video is trying to play to his absolute utmost to find the peak of his performance within this eastern sounding mode - while the man in the former video with the fretless is playing with finesse and in the confidence of the structure of the makam.

Please also be aware that arabic maqam and turkish makam are quite different, it is important not to confuse the two.

We can certainly learn a lot from these musics both in the use of intonation and in musical structure.



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