• Would You Share Your Publishing ?
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Would You Share Your Publishing ?
on: December 02, 2020, 17:02:20
I got a book out of the Library titled "Confessions Of A Serial Songwriter"  - nothing much to recommend about the book, but she does bring up a point of writers credit and publishing,,,, namely since that is where the money is at potentially, the "artist"  & team want at least half of the credit and publishing for them to record the song.  If you don't do it somebody else will

The question I'd liken to put forth is, would you give up any of your credit and publishing to have someone record your song?

For the record - I would in a heartbeat  ;D
Vince


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Re: Would You Share Your Publishing ?
Reply #1 on: December 03, 2020, 07:27:14
Hi @Vince
@Bill from November Sound posted https://www.songwriter-forum-kitchen.com/forum/seo/3/ruin-ones-chance-not-sure-what-to-call-this-thread/6621/

It is in café. I posted two quite lengthy pieces, that were completely different from the stuff other people posted. My pieces have not met with a lot of applause, so I must take the possibility into account, that it was not what Bill needed. But since I still believe I touched on valid points, I thought that maybe you could have a little read.

My posts were (in short) about the inequality between the writer/musician having to deal with business models and the business guys/girls who do nothing else and therefore have perfected their work to a certain degree.
Your aim is to get your music across, their aim is to make your music pay their mortgage.

If I understand your question well, I think I would ask one of the mods to remove your question to café where it will attract more attention.

If this attention to the business side of our trade is not your objective, then I am sorry. In that case I can’t help you.
Kind regards, Gus


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Re: Would You Share Your Publishing ?
Reply #2 on: December 03, 2020, 14:19:49
oops @LePlongeur   your right, hopefully it will be moved or taken down, I don't mind. To be a little clearer, this is not to lead down the path of raging against the system, but more a question that was brought up by the book I read.

Would you give away some of your song writing credit and the publishing if some big name's people contacted you saying they were interested, but only if you would share (or give up completely) ?

Maybe some member has already done that, or been approached?  It seems to me most members are just doing their own thing for enjoyment so I'm expecting some no's if they reply. Me, like it ever would happen  ;D , would share the credit and whatever else. 


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Re: Would You Share Your Publishing ?
Reply #3 on: December 03, 2020, 15:08:39
It’s as old as the writing of music itself.
Carole King and her hubby wrote a huge pile of beautiful songs.
Phil Spector, the one trick pony, added an utterly lame and measly 4 extra lines, and wrote his name before goffin and king.
He did the same with every song he could lay his hand on and was very successful for a relatively short time.

And the answer to your question? No, I didn’t but then I was never asked. I was very successful for an even shorter time than Phil S.
I hope that you have some extra insight after reading my posts. In that case it was not a complete waste of time.

Success with your search. And if you want your thread in a different place, ask one of the management. Those are kind people.
Kind regards, Gus


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Re: Would You Share Your Publishing ?
Reply #4 on: December 03, 2020, 20:14:31
Personally I'm okay with this post in this board @LePlongeur  @Vince
but if moving is worth our whiel, we can call the help of the KitchenMover
In a good kitchen things always lay about :-)

I certainly wouldn't call Phil Spector a one trick pony, at least not before he went mad.
But that - off course is beside the _pointe_

On a song to song basis I could decide to sign away copyright to a well established artist. Why not. But I would never ever sign a contract that signs away all rights of all music (past, present and future) (co-)written by me  to a publisher. That happened to the Beatles, and some really interesting books have been written on that subject:

NEMS and the Business of Selling Beatles Merchandise in the U.S. 1964-1966 Terry Crain and faBgear 2020

 Come Together: The Business Wisdom of the Beatles
by Richard Courtney and George Cassidy 2011


The Beatles and Economics: Entrepreneurship, Innovation, and the Making of a Cultural Revolution (Routledge Economics and Popular Culture Series)
Samuel R. Staley 2020

Allen Klein, the man who bailed out the Beatles. made the Stones and transformed Rock & Roll - Fred Goodman, 2016

Would You Trust this Man with Your Songs?: A Life in the Music Business, Sam Trust 2018

 You Never Give Me Your Money: The Beatles After the Breakup
Peter Doggett 2010




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Re: Would You Share Your Publishing ?
Reply #5 on: December 11, 2020, 19:52:40
I applaud everything you write @LePlongeur   :dance:   

I, of course, was just getting conversation going. I was not necessarily planning to sell my house, all my possessions, buy a bus and start touring the Midwest.

 ::) 

meaning ... so to speak ... I don't really "need" anything. My life is what it is. I just think about stuff.     ... a lot.  :-\



Re: Would You Share Your Publishing ?
Reply #6 on: October 09, 2021, 21:45:54
This caught my attention so thought I’d give it a bump... @Vince

I would never give up all of copyright protection to a song... but I suppose I might consider an offer to share... but then haven’t heard an offer to consider.

If someone wanted to record one of my songs, it would be appropriate for the artist to share any profit... I believe those percentages are more or less standard... but then I’m sure there are plenty of creative hucksters out their with a deal structure that sounds too good to be true...

So far... I haven’t had this problem... but I’m looking forward to it... ;)


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Re: Would You Share Your Publishing ?
Reply #7 on: October 10, 2021, 15:37:30
@1roomstudio   I was curious after reading the book "Confessions of a Serial Songwriter"  I never heard of the author ,Shelly Peiken , though. 

With so many talented people here I was wondering if that happened to them. Since I guess it's common knowledge that the money is in publishing people all want a part of the action.

I was reading Robbie Robertson's autobiography (I check these out of the local library)  and back when the Band was called the Hawks he wrote a few songs that he never got credited for. The Hawk told him you don't mess with those guys so he let it alone.


Re: Would You Share Your Publishing ?
Reply #8 on: October 10, 2021, 16:46:05
I wouldn't allow anybody to copy any work without mentioning that I wrote the song, supposing for a minute that anyone might be interested. If someone wanted to play any of my songs, then I think we could easily come to an agreement on how to do this fairly.

But allow me to be a little cynical here. The trouble is that if somebody used any of my songs and claimed it to be his/her production, I would have to prove that it wasn't. The burden of evidencing would fall on me, instead of the thief, and that is not so easy. After all, work that we post can easily be stolen and adapted, as it is there in the open. If the actual owner (i.e. me) finds it difficult to prove that he is the actual owner, the thief might even sue ME for theft. Such a form of malfeasance is not exactly new, just look at what the US did to native American property in the past. Apart from that, would you be prepared to take all the legal challenges to get the song back? I am not so sure many of us would be prepared to live such a fight.
Pleudoniem: composer; bass guitarist; guitarist; singer; drummer; tap-guitarist - o, and yes... erm- a bit of keys. Open for collabs.
SoundCloud Page: https://soundcloud.com/pleudoniem


Re: Would You Share Your Publishing ?
Reply #9 on: October 10, 2021, 17:38:53
oops @LePlongeur   your right, hopefully it will be moved or taken down, I don't mind. To be a little clearer, this is not to lead down the path of raging against the system, but more a question that was brought up by the book I read.

Would you give away some of your song writing credit and the publishing if some big name's people contacted you saying they were interested, but only if you would share (or give up completely) ?

Maybe some member has already done that, or been approached?  It seems to me most members are just doing their own thing for enjoyment so I'm expecting some no's if they reply. Me, like it ever would happen  ;D , would share the credit and whatever else.

@Vince,  Of course I would!  It's not fair at all but once discovered, I reckon a writer would gain more leverage to put their foot down for a better deal.  Writing isn't difficult.  We've all worked hard to earn a living in our day jobs.  Writing doesn't compare to working a 10 hour shift in any way.   Once the writing skill has been mastered, writing is in my opinion very easy.  Being discovered is a different ball game and many of us don't have the patience or desire to play that game.  I'm sure there are thousands of excellent, skilful undiscovered songwriters.  I'd love to write for other artists and have no desire to be famous.  If someone said "Hey Paul, write for us and give us a 50/50 credit on your creation", I'd bite their hand off.  Once your established, you can negotiate a better deal and hopefully rise above such an exploitative deal!


Paul


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Re: Would You Share Your Publishing ?
Reply #10 on: October 10, 2021, 23:57:22
@Pleudoniem  that happened to me.  :(   

We have one popular song. One that we get a check for every year.
... and of course the big evil Universal Music Publishing Group put some kind of a secondary publishing copyright claim on my video and there is no way to dispute it through YouTube because the first copyright claim is through CDBaby on behalf of my band name.
I can dispute that one: I wouldn't.
I can't dispute the Universal claim.

I wrote, recorded and produced it 100%
Like you said... now I have to prove it and it will cost more in attorney's fees than the amount I make form the song. Is it worth it? 


Re: Would You Share Your Publishing ?
Reply #11 on: October 11, 2021, 00:19:28
@Bill Not if you don't want to keep suing until they've dried up your resources, because that is probably what they will do. And what if you lose?


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Re: Would You Share Your Publishing ?
Reply #12 on: October 11, 2021, 00:29:32
Oh I wont lose.
I wrote it, recorded and performed it 100%, and all my official government copyright documents are long since on file/ here in my hands.

But even then @Pleudoniem that's exactly the point. I can't afford to sue them. They can do whatever the heck they want and they know it. They are well known for their unfair copyright claims all over the internet.  ::) 

Someone also stole it/ reuploaded it on iTunes but thankfully Apple got back to me and took the bootleg version down.  :thumbsup:


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Re: Would You Share Your Publishing ?
Reply #13 on: October 11, 2021, 01:47:59
Quote
If someone said "Hey Paul, write for us and give us a 50/50 credit on your creation", I'd bite their hand off. 

Bite their hand off?   8)  uh .....


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Re: Would You Share Your Publishing ?
Reply #14 on: Today at 08:17:36
After a long spell of being ripped off by Kazaa users and what have you, at long last writers are having a chance at earning something for their work.
Not if you’re small of course. But Adele earned some €38.000,00 in three days on her latest song, published on YouTube. This amount is only taking her YouTube earnings into account.

A side effect is, that people, who are able to attract large sums from investors, are now in the market to buy up large portfolio’s of musical rights.

Same development as for vegetarian and vegan food. For centuries ridiculed and marginalised, but now that it becomes clear that there are really huge amounts of turnover and profits involved, the amount of parties interested in saving the planet increases astronomical.
Doubled in a mere 5 years. That’s a serious 6% cumulative per year.

We’re a very civilised, purse driven society.
I am curious where it’ll lead up to.
Kind regards, Gus




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